Your feedback on features affected by the upgrade

Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by Daniel, Aug 7, 2013.

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What's your opinion on these features?

Poll closed Aug 28, 2013.
  1. Reputation: System is a must - keep it!

    48.6%
  2. Reputation: Lose the system - better off without it

    2.7%
  3. Reputation: Indifferent

    37.8%
  4. Albums: support, add new advanced photo albums

    24.3%
  5. Albums: opposed, lose them completely

    21.6%
  6. Workshop: support rating system

    54.1%
  7. Workshop: opposed to rating system

    24.3%
  8. Workshop: support hidden erotica section

    54.1%
  9. Workshop: opposed to hidden erotica section

    21.6%
  10. Marketplace: strongly support

    24.3%
  11. Marketplace: indifferent

    62.2%
  12. Marketplace: strongly opposed

    5.4%
  13. Publisher Discussion: support

    73.0%
  14. Publisher Discussion: oppose

    2.7%
  15. Tagging system: I use it

    27.0%
  16. Tagging system: what's that?

    48.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    'erotica' can also cross over into porn all too easily... who's going to be vetting what can be allowed on the site?

    are you considering allowing only 'erotica' that features graphic 'normal' sex?... or will bondage, rape, incest and any/all of the other creepy/sleazy scheiss that some like to write/read be besmirching our website?

    allowing 'erotica' at all is a very slippery slope, daniel... i'm solidly with cog in strongly advising we not take that turn for the worse... [sorry about the inadvertant mixed metaphor pun]...
     
  2. rhduke

    rhduke Member Reviewer

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    I voted no for erotica because I know it would cause conflict between members in the future about what is acceptable or not, and we certainly don't need another reason to argue with each other. That being said...I'm not apposed to the actual genre and I don't see how it can flood the board. Are people afraid there are going to be more topics about rape and sex in general discussion or something? More than there already is?

    If the RPG board is proof of anything, it's that you can have an entire community inside a forum that doesn't negatively affect the rest of the community.

    Once new members do learn about this section, they will try to create false aged accounts, so I would suggest raising the post limit to see it. I don't think it matters anyway. Daniel said he's looking for a consensus and looking at the votes and responses, we clearly don't have one.
     
  3. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    I think your bar is too high for a consensus. So far a hidden erotica section is favored 2:1. But that's up to Daniel to decide, but so far, none of the options are unanimous.

    I voted 'Yes' to the erotica section just because it is a legitimate style of writing that, as Wrey said, is as much an art as writing a fight, or a shoot out. It takes a lot more than just throwing body parts all over the place.

    But I'm always in favor of more inividual freedom and expression and even though I may not be into it, others should have a right to be heard and helped.
     
  4. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    You don't have to read it. That's the point of a separate sub-forum.
     
  5. Daniel

    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors Founder Staff

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    First of all, thank you all for your feedback. It is very helpful. I really appreciate it, and I fully intend to further develop WF based on what we want as a community.

    Some clarification on a few points:

    Reputation/Likes - The problem is that the new software doesn't have a rep system, but it has a likes system. I can possibly customize it to keep the rep system in addition to the like system, but I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble. If we lose the rep system we'll still have the likes, so you'll get notified that someone appreciates or agrees with you. If we do keep the rep system it's possible we might lose existing rep. Furthermore, the contributing badge and senior member groups won't disappear - the criteria would just be switched to likes instead of reps (say, 200 likes instead of 100 rep points). Additionally, I have no plans on adding negative reps. That said, I'll look further into preserving the reputation system.

    @jannert, the like system wouldn't be anonymous. It would be more public than the rep system (everyone can see who liked a post), so I don't see how it could be abused - though maybe overused.

    Writing Workshop rating system - I do not mean a star-type rating system. I think that'd be inappropriate for a workshop environment, more appropriate for a showcase-type area. By rating system I meant a content rating system - a way to rate the writing based on content and maturity, so those who prefer to avoid offensive writing can easily do so.

    That's a valid point. How long of an excerpt do you think is appropriate? Ideally it'd be nice if one could link entries (chapter 1, chapter 2, etc.) Formatting-wise, that *may* be an included feature in the new version, I'm not sure.

    Workshop erotica section - I see and understand both perspectives on this. If implemented, it would be completely hidden to unregistered members and for members under 17/18 or whatever age is appropriate. This would be based on the date of birth you enter on registration. If you're honest with your age when you sign up, those under the age wouldn't even know it exists. I may be able to even let you choose to hide the forum entirely, even if you meet the age requirements, though we wouldn't require a password/request to access it. It would also function as a part of the workshop as far as review requirements go. As for rules on content for erotia (maia's concern) - I'm willing to let the community decide on what's acceptable, but my personal opinion is that if we have an erotica section, anything goes. It's just writing, not as if the writer is advocating for rape (for example). As far as prohibiting things go, I' take more of a preventing harm than preventing offense approach.

    The Marketplace - in this context, I'm talking about a marketplace with listing fees, primarily for advertisers and vendors of writing-related services. For example, if a mobile app creator has a writing app they want to market towards writers or if an editor is looking for clients in need, they could create a thread advertising their services. Additionally, if a freelancer or book cover design is looking for work, they could post that they're available to do so. I wasn't specifically talking about a space to share resources/tips/articles, though I suppose that if we have a marketplace, there isn't much of an argument against this additional section as well - provided it was well-moderated, in which case it'd be visible to everyone but only active members of the forum can post in it. Limitations would be similar to the limitations for the writing workshop section, but more strict.



    Visitor messages will be preserved - both the feature and existing messages. No worries there!




    I hear you guys. As far as political-type threads go, I'm considering adding a political/debate forum in the lounge; however, I know many of you are opposed to that. One option I'm considering to reduce the discussions unrelated to writing is to perhaps eliminate the Entertainment sub forum, not add any in the future, and open a sister site for more broad off-topic discussion or for political/philosophical/debate. In theory this could be set up to allow you to have a linked account on the separate site, so you wouldn't need to reregister. Any thoughts on this? I'm not going to eliminate The Lounge entirely, but I'm beginning to think off-topic discussion does do some harm.


    I don't view that as advertising. When I'm evaluating if something's advertising or not, I look at the posters intent. What's their agenda? If it's to promote their site or product, that's advertising. If you're linking to something you're unaffiliated with, that's not.


    How's that system working out there? I have the ability to add this, though I very likely won't - I'm just curious.

    Good point.

    Thank you all for voting and for the feedback. If you haven't already, please vote. The more people who vote, the better I can gauge what the community wants. I'm a rational person - make a good argument for or against some of these features if you feel strongly enough. I can listen to reason. :p
     
  6. Thomas Kitchen

    Thomas Kitchen Proofreader in the Making Contributor

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    I really don't see an issue with an erotica section. As long as it's not for people under whatever age decided (hopefully 18), then what does it matter? Some writers want to write great action scenes. Others want to write great sex scenes. Both are equally valid, as both require a certain finesse, and both require good feedback and critiquing. So, in my opinion, why hold some writers back?

    And if you don't want to use that section, you can always steer clear of it.
     
  7. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I'm fine with either a politics/philosophy subforum here on WF or a separate forum entirely.
     
  8. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I'm with you there, [MENTION=5272]thirdwind[/MENTION]. The RPG Forum is an excellent example of how a sub-forum can make a topic that seems like it might distract, become an integrated part of the forum.
     
  9. chicagoliz

    chicagoliz Contributor Contributor

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    Re: Erotica -- I can take it or leave it. On another forum I occasionally check, they do have an erotica or "adult" section, but a lot of the entries just seem, well, stupid. They seem to often be merely an outlet for some folks to share their sex fantasies. Maybe I don't read enough erotica (despite having been accused of writing it ;-) ), but really there should be some sort of story or larger meaning along with it. That said, I just don't go there any more. But I was kind of disappointed because there are some snippets that have adult or mature themes that really should be viewed only by folks over 18, but aren't really full-blown "erotica."

    Re: Reputation. I'm so excited that I finally got to a rep power of 10 and have six green bars. I will be sad to lose that.

    Re: Entertainment section -- I kind of like it. I know, for example, we've had a discussion about the show Breaking Bad. I like having this discussion, because it is tangentially related to writing -- the show is brilliantly written and has some unique aspects of character development that I've referenced occasionally in discussions of character development. So, I don't think all "off-topic" discussions are equally off-topic.
     
  10. Ian J.

    Ian J. Active Member

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    There was some resistance to it at first, mainly from less adaptable older members who hate change and felt the icons cluttered the screen. A couple of adaptations were made by the admin to reduce the visual impact a bit, and now in general I think most people can see that being able to give different types of kudos to a post has been useful. I would link to the forum but unless you're a member you can't see the likes so it wouldn't be much use just to see it from outside. I'll PM with the site details should you want to contact the admin.
     
  11. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Wow. Daniel. You knock me out with all the work you're doing, trying to improve the new format. I really REALLY appreciate this forum!

    Just a couple of ideas regarding the posting of longer novels.

    One - Beta Readers

    What people who write novels REALLY need is a good beta reader. A person who writes novels themselves and appreciates what goes into writing one.

    We budding novelists really need somebody who is willing to read an entire chapter or two, or even the entire novel once it's finished, and give a critique. The short-post 'norm' on this site does not encourage this. And many people who do respond to novel snippets are 'short story' afficianados, who really don't like novels much and tend to want to shorten everything, and want everything to be obvious from the get-go. Novels develop slowly.

    One way to bypass this dilemma, is to create a database of forum members who are willing to become beta readers.

    I envision this as a list of people who indicate their willingness to exchange work, to be read in its entirety. This list would be linked to individual profiles, so it's up to the person looking for a beta reader to read the profile, check other posts, and decide if this is the person best suited to read their particular novel. The same can be done by the beta reader him/herself, to decide if they WANT to read a particular applicant's novel.

    Once the relationship is agreed upon, the writer can post their novel chapter by chapter in a PM (which I presume you're keeping) or arrange between them to exchange email addresses, etc, to post in another format. (Sending novels to each other by email bypasses the risk that you're publishing the work online...)

    Incidentally, I've already done this with three forum members, and we are happily exchanging writings just now. One has very kindly read and given me feedback on my own completed (massive!) historical novel, while I'm currently reading and critiquing three works in progress. It's a very much needed facility. Otherwise, we're stuck trying to get friends and family to do this for us, and sometimes these people are either not qualified or not interested enough to give helpful feedback—the kind you get from other writers.

    Two - Expanded Novels Workshop

    I would love a 'Novels' workshop that does NOT discourage posting long work! Seeing the current suggestion, that long works are not encouraged, is so devastating for a novelist! It's enough to make you not bother posting at all.

    If there was a way to post an entire novel Work In Progress within a particular thread—with the novel's title as its heading—that would be fabulous. (Of course there is that pre-publication risk ...but I suppose that counts for anything published on this site, including poetry, short stories, etc...)

    People who are interested in novels would love a section like this. It would definitely separate itself from the short story section.

    I find that many critiques in the 'novel' section at the moment, treat the offerings as if they are stories unto themselves, and complain because they don't know who the characters are, what's going on, or the fact that the story doesn't 'end' conclusively. It's just a posted snippet of a longer work, but it's often treated in the critique as if it's supposed to be a short story.

    If a member is NOT into reading long stories, they should just move to the short story section and do their critiques there. If they find long work intrinsically intimidating or boring, they should just go elsewhere. I mean, I'm not into scriptwriting or game-creation myself, so I don't go to those threads at all. I wouldn't go to those threads to complain because the offerings aren't novels!

    Anyway, just a couple of suggestions...
     
  12. Exzalia

    Exzalia Banned Contributor

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    wuts with all the photo album hate? keep the photo's I use my album for inspiration to write!
     
  13. the1

    the1 Active Member

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    As far as my experience with photo albums goes (on this forum and others), I have never once looked at another user's album. It might be nice to see a few photos in your profile but the vast majority of people could care less for photo albums. If you feel the urge to post an image I am sure you can make a thread in the Lounge or similar section and let people see it.
     
  14. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    A number of us here are also artists or photographers, and it's nice to have a place to share that side of ourselves in our profiles. I know for a fact that people do occasionally visit my album, from the comments that I receive from time to time. Also, if I know someone has an artistic bent, I'm likely to look for an album on their profile.

    This is a site that appeals to creative people. That creativity is often not limited to writing.
     
    Daniel likes this.
  15. Exzalia

    Exzalia Banned Contributor

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    I agree, I mean it's not a HUGE deal, but sometimes I even use my picture in my rp's I love saving inspiring concept art works that I can look at while I make posts :(
     
  16. the1

    the1 Active Member

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    The thing that must be weighed up as well for Photo Albums is the fact that the are a bit of a resource hog. Are they absolutely necessary and vital to the operation of this forum? I would tend to side with no.

    Photo albums can take up a lot of HDD space which I'm sure could be better saved for other things.

    If people want to showcase their artistic side I'm sure they can leave a link to a portfolio of their work in their signatures.

    @Cogito I'm sure you would receive a fair amount of comments on your profile but I feel this is more likely due to your stature in the community. Being a former moderator your presence around the community was well known. Due to that fact you are much more likely to have people look at your albums. For the wider population Album participation is essentially zero.
     
  17. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Did you decide on the marketing sub-forum yet? We have our first prospect in the New Member Intros that I reported because that was advised rather than reply, IIRC, not because the post was commercially bothersome. But the thread now has a post of an interested forum member who also posted a 'like'.

    I don't really object to the thread. It just needs a proper home.
     
  18. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I keep getting an "Authentication Required" popup for a "restricted area" of the forum. Anyone else getting this? I tried my username and password, but that didn't work.
     
  19. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I disagree. Having been a moderator, I was also able to see members browsing other members' albums on occasion. Often enough to know that you are mistaken.

    What I think you really mean is that YOU have no interest in browsing albums.
     
  20. mrieder79

    mrieder79 Probably not a ground squirrel Contributor

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    I also get an authentication required pop up that does not respond to my log in information. Every time I load a new page on the forums it pops up and is rather troublesome. If anyone figures out how to fix it, I would be most grateful.
     
  21. Macaberz

    Macaberz Pay it forward Contributor

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    Have you tried it in a different browser? (Be ashamed if you still use that piece of ---- called Internet Explorer, switch to Firefox, Opera or Chrome)
     
  22. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Is the the initial log in? How are you posting here? Are you talking about a sub-forum?

    Are you just not checking "remember me"?
     
  23. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    It's not browser-specific, and please don't ignite a "browser war"
     
  24. Macaberz

    Macaberz Pay it forward Contributor

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    Okay. I certainly don't mean to start a browser war. You'd be surprised how different browsers can be responsible for all sorts of quirks though...okay, you probably already knew. Oh well.

    I for one, haven't seen an authentication pop up at all. I just log in at the top and I am fine. Since I don't have the issue, I can't investigate though...
     
  25. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I think its only affecting certain members. However, to eally invesigate this would require access to the server. The server logs should indicate what web page components are getting an authentication error.
     

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