POV Chart

By Xoic · May 21, 2020 · ·
  1. [​IMG]
    I'm hoping that putting this together helps it all stick in my mind. If not, I know where to find it when I need it. If you notice anything wrong or missing let me know. I'm considering doing a few more entries to go into detail about each. Reading about it over and over helps, but dragging the information through your brain and writing it down (or putting it in a table) does a better job of it.

    I left second person blank because I don't think I'll ever use it. Also I don 't remember seeing any info about it anywhere in all my recent searching.
    O.M. Hillside and Foxxx like this.

Comments

  1. jim onion
    I've used second person a few times for ledes in journalism, or breaking the fourth wall. Otherwise I've only ever seen it in choose-your-own-adventures.
      Xoic likes this.
  2. Xoic
    Are you aware of any particular rules or guidelines for it? It seems like it could be either deep or distant, or probably drift between them as needed. I can't imagine switching between different characters and calling them all You, so I think it's probably locked into just a single POV character throughout.
      Foxxx likes this.
  3. jim onion
    You can do it in a few different ways.

    "You" can be designed to put the reader in the position of the subject.

    Or more informally, "you" could be used like "one". You see this from time to time in discussion on here: general "you", not literally "you". Often used in hypotheticals.

    Yeah, it's typically locked into a single POV. If I'm not mistaken, Dungeons and Dragons does a lot of this.

    I notice people tell stories and share information with "you" all the time. I find it more engaging than "I, I, I, I". Instead of making the story sound like it's all about themselves ("I did this, I did that"), it tricks listeners into thinking it's all about *them*.

    It's an overt invitation to use some imagination and pretend to be someone else, somewhere else.

    Of course, the thing about first-person POV is that it is simply assumed that the reader is the narrator. So in that sense, second-person is automatically more distanced, as it presupposes a separate reader and listener.

    That's my layman's opinion.
      Xoic likes this.
  4. Wreybies
    You/Reader stories are particularly prominent in fanfiction circles.
      Xoic likes this.
  5. Xoic
    Foxxx—(Wrey snuck in while I was typing) Good stuff, thanks. I hadn't thought about You being substituted for One and for I, but that's so true.


    Wrey—I didn't realize that, haven't read much fanfic. It makes sense though.

    Weird, why can't I separate this into paragraphs??@#%!!
      Wreybies likes this.
  6. Wreybies
    I dabble. It's fun. ;) Plus the fanfiction crowd never, ever, evah asks you to defend the placement of a raunchy sex scene.

    The blog area is a plugin for Xenforo™. It doesn't work exactly as the regular forum does. This quote I've embedded, for example, I had to hand-construct the BBCode that makes it work.
  7. Xoic
    Ok cool. I can do that, but no need to put your name in there (could do that too if I wanted to). And strangely, now my previous post is separated into paragraphs, including the extra line break I inserted to try to force it. I realized it works differently when I tried to put the @ on your names and it did nothing.

    And it looks like formatting, such as paragraph breaks, don't show up until I refresh the page.
      Wreybies likes this.
  8. Wreybies
    Small glitch in the blog plugin. If you edit an existing post or reply, the first time you hit post, it tends to come up as raw text with unparsed BBCode all as one chunk. Just hit refresh and it goes back to normal... usually. ;)
  9. Xoic
    Lol I was adding that to my post as you wrote this. Communicating on massage boards is a funny thing, ain't it?
  10. Xoic
    Xenforo eh? so these blogs are the ones that are going to disappear when the switch happens. I need to keep saving my blog as PDFs if I want to hold onto anything I guess.
  11. EFMingo
    This actually breaks down a whole hell of a lot further. I'll post something later tonight or tomorrow, as I have work right now, but I will say that the break downs between the main three get more complicated when he multiplicity of views increases. Also, there are various narration methods that move as objective or subjective based style, which enter a different element to works. Sorry, just give me until tomorrow and I'll get a load of them written out here.
      Xoic likes this.
  12. Wreybies
    And back to the topic at hand:

    I cannot begin to tell you how delighted I am to see others digging deeper into the facets and concepts of POV. I admined this forum for over a decade and the never-ending river of "how do I describe this person" posts was at first frustrating, then maddening, then tiring, then just an annoyance. I stopped trying to ask questions further back in the order condescendi because, well, people don't like the idea that they don't know what to do now because they got here via the most random of paths.

    "What's the POV?"

    "Um... words?"

    "No, no. Who is the character we are using as a filter?"

    "My characters are not coffee filters."

    "Actually, if you're willing to entertain a metaphor, yes, they are."

    "You're a dildo. Can't you just give me words to describe this face?"

    "Sure. He had lips where one usually finds lips. Above these, a nose in the typical orientation for an anatomically modern sapiens..."

    "Yep, you're a dildo."

    "I am many things, and yes, occasionally a dildo, but not today. Today I'm trying to get you to acknowledge the structural scaffolding you've chosen for this story. You keep asking what kinds of walls, what kinds of elevators, how many stories, flats or offices, luxury or economy, and you have yet to tell me what all of this is using as a skeleton. You cannot build an elephant on the skeleton of a platypus, and since you refuse to let me know about the skeleton, my answers can come from elephant, giraffe, tiger, mole, worm, anything!"

    "I hate you..."

    "You would hate me a great deal less if you just answered the question."
      Not the Territory, Xoic and EFMingo like this.
  13. Xoic
    I've seen this conversation many times already, and I've only been here a few months. And I am beginning to see POV as the first filter through which the story world is seen, and so the most important (like perspective for visual art).

    Now that I've laid it out in a table it seems fairly simple. It'll still take me a while to fully understand it, and then to speak it.

    I used to see similar conversations about perspective. And the Dunning/Kruger effect definitely applies—the ones who haven't learned the conceptual framework yet can't see their own mistakes—they tend to overestimate their own skills and underestimate those of even the greatest artists, and don't want to apply themselves to studying and gradually learning something, they just want a quick fix. When I would tell them to learn perspective by drawing the geometric solids (block, cone, cylinder, sphere etc) they'd say "Oh, I looked at that before, I understand it." But their drawings don't show an understanding. So I came up with the analogy that you don't really understand the language of perspective (or anything art related) until you can speak it fluently, which means draw it. This is an analogy I think you can appreciate, cause you word so good.
  14. Xoic
    Thanks EF! Looking forward to it. It sounds like you might be bringing the advanced level stuff. I definitely want to see it, but I'll probably need to absorb the intermediate level first (the table above). Not long ago I only knew the beginner level (first column of the table).
  15. Xoic
    @ Wrey (I know, the @ doesn't do anything)—re-reading your big comment, and the irony struck me. They get offended at their characters being compared to filters, and yet you can be a dildo. Hmmm... :superthink:
To make a comment simply sign up and become a member!
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice