Free Will is a Fabrication of a Fragile Mind. That is, it Doesn't Exist.

By Kas · Jan 17, 2010 · ·
  1. Every second of your experience in life, every atom in your being, all the genetics and DNA you were born with--those are the only determining factors in what you do. It's impossible for you to actually make a choice as most people perceive the notion. Your so-called choice is predetermined by countless influences in your life that all combine into one inevitable conclusion.

    Sorry if that disturbs you. Truth is often unsettling.

    This, of course, is as obvious to me as the fact that Thomas Dietz' Video #11 is the most amazing thing ever. But a lot of people will refute both claims. I've heard and read numerous arguments, but none make any sense at all to me. Clearly, Thomas Dietz has Anthony Gatto beaten like the dead-horse topic of Twilight's suckage.

    There are two possible reasons for this, as I see it:

    1.) I don't care. Whether my theory is true or not has no effect whatsoever on my life and therefore it is easy for me to accept. On the other hand, one who can't cope seeks hope.

    2.) I'm too egotistical to admit to being wrong or to give an opposing view due consideration. I do have a mighty ego, to be sure, but I've also been known to change my stance faster than Superman, AKA Thomas Dietz, can change his clothes.

    :confused:

    Thoughts?

Comments

  1. Eoz Eanj
    I see we have a hard determinist in our mist. I guess you're a fan of the matrix?
  2. Kas
    I'm not sure what your mist is, but I hated the matrix. I am, however, a great fan of Jon Lajoie.;)
  3. twinstargemini
    You got to mention the environment as well. As psychology states that in determinism we have the biological, psychological i.e. environmental and sociological factors. It is not only one deterministic value, also have you heard of the butterfly effect that supports its both deterministic and free will, which is known as soft determinism.
  4. soujiroseta
    One of the bad guys in one of the stories i wrote a while ago said something very similar to this, except he didn't put it som nicely and...he got shot halfway through:p
  5. thirdwind
    A couple of comments:

    1) If hard determinism holds, then people are not responsible for their actions, both good and bad. So for criminal cases, we must then blame the criminal's environment, etc. since his actions are a direct result of that environment.

    2) Our decisions are governed by both rational and irrational (impulsive) choices. These impulsive choices are not a result of determinism and thus fall into the "free will" category. There is a group of scientists that claims that our impulsive decisions are due to the random firing of neurons and synapses. It is true that our neurons do fire randomly at times, but I'm not sure if there is a direct correlation with making impulsive decisions.

    3) Lastly, hard determinists believe that everything is determined, including a person's belief in either determinism or free will. Yet, they claim that non-determinists are wrong and should change their views. However, this implies that people are free to change their views, which directly contradicts hard determinism.

    Anyways, this post gave me something to think about early in the morning. :)
  6. thirdwind
    Whoops, double post.
  7. Cogito
    Quantum mechanics theory would disagree with you. Not only is every choice possible, all of them are exercised in proportion to the probability of the choice.
  8. twinstargemini
    No science is deterministic, at best soft determinism, if you look at chemistry, some areas of it is a bit fuzzy, as magnesium grows bright, sure we know that and they say it gives off a silver light, yet some people have noticed it going off in a blueish light. Even biology, that is soft determinism, since it believes that cells all are similar, but some are different.

    I know it does not make sense, but what I am saying is that at best, hard determinism does exist but not to an extent, and free will does exist but not to an extent. It is in middle, as Cogito said, it is due to probability or in this case as it is called soft determinism.
  9. Kas
    I rather thought I had, in fact, mentioned it in my very broad and obtuse assertion that, "Every second of your experience in life . . ." (contributes to) ". . .one inevitable conclusion." I suppose I could have made myself more clear with the great verbosity I'm naturally inclined to exhibit, but for some reason, I decided to restrain myself somewhat in this posting. Short and sweet this time. Always trying new things, am I!
    Sorry to interrupt, but . . .I also failed to mention that this is a personal theory of mine, originating from critical self-analysis and the objective examination of indoctrination into various schools of thought that I had been subjected to at the time of this great "thinking marathon"--the age of six or seven, I believe it was, during an hour-long period of epic constipation, which, incidentally, also lead to my atheism,[Just to clarify, it was the thinking I opportunistically did while suffering from from said constipation that lead to my atheism, not the bowel blockage itself.] as well as the realisation that constipation need not necessarily be a bad thing and can, in fact, serve at least two very useful purposes: allow a potentially thoughtful and bright youngster the opportunity to expand his mental faculties (which, I am delighted to report, he did very well do) and relieve himself, if you'll pardon the pun and distasteful, clichéd metaphor I've not-so-subtly invoked, of (to his perspective) needless and seemingly irrational psychological burdens while simultaneously teaching him an exceptionally profound and invaluable, yet sillifiably [Yes, I made that up. And yes, I realise it's neither very funny nor creative, but I'm leaving it in, anyway, for reasons, I, myself, am unsure of.] simple skill--that being, if you haven't already guessed, the art [Is it truly an art? Ah, the eternal debate. What is art? What is skill? What is talent? What is the difference, metaphorically speaking, of course, between this preposterous monstrosity of a sentence and the current political environment of North America?] of relaxation, where just as a relaxed anus is more apt to release a bothersome load of undesirable baggage, so, too, is the learned one's [I feel perfectly entitled to shamelessly flatter myself on occasion, yes. So you know where your, in my opinion, utterly irrelevant opinion belongs, don't you? The same place your head must have been when you wrote your comment. Wait--I'm sorry! That was completely inappropriate, breaks the most fundamental forum rule, is totally uncharacteristic of me, and I didn't mean what I implied at all. You must believe me. But I find myself unable to delete anything I've written here--to kill my babies, as the expression goes--and I only wrote it, because, roughly one-hundred-twenty seconds ago, or in other words, two minutes ago, it seemed really funny in my head, but now it really doesn't. But you can't blame me--I have no free will, for Spaghetti's sake!] mind able to release the emotional and intellectual equivalent of the same, and so, therefore, I couldn't really care any less about the definition of "determinist" or the symbolic box people so often think I must fit into, for this thought sprouted from my own brain and not a book I read or a course I took--and just to ice the cake and bring this abomination of literature to a proper conclusion, I have my own unique, utterly bizarre and inexplicable box that entraps my mind with a vice grip such as that of an anaconda and will surely continue to do so until the day I die, despite my ever-persistent, sillifiably futile efforts to prove myself wrong.

    Thank you for calling Kas' Pointless Blog. (Which, incidentally, sounds a lot like "blargh," doesn't it? As in the sound of vomiting. As in word-vomit.)

    Your call is important to us. Please stay on the line and a sane person will get back to you shortly.

    (not)

    Because as I like to say (as of now . . . because I only just thought of it now . . . and I am nearly as vulgar as I am pretentious, naturally) if you're not completely bats***, you're strange as f***.

    You want to know something funny as all hell? I passed this through Word 2007 and it didn't have much to say about the grammar. Try it.:rolleyes:
  10. DragonGrim
    (It is un-testable so it’s unscientific, and I would therefore call it a philosophy rather than a theory for specificity.)

    Anyhow, it sounds a lot like a philosophy to avoid responsibility.

    The only argument against it is going back to Rene Descartes, when he questioned if the universe were only an illusion. This is because you are speculating that we are all illusions in a manner of speaking.
  11. jonathan hernandez13
    Interesting topic Kas, I have been hearing people discuss this more and more recently and will regurgitate some points because my brain isnt awake enough yet to contribute anything else.

    The whole concept of free will, as far as I can tell, is a Red Herring invented by theologians to disguise the fact that we are merely puppets of God.

    Is there a freedom of choice? Only to a certain extent, as you pointed out we are limited by genetics, the laws of nature, etc. There are also artificial laws, so even if you are free to murder you are just as free to rot in prison.

    The important thing is not that we have the freedom to do something, what is important and often overlooked is that actions have consequences. Are we free to choose? Yes. Are we free of consequence? Never; cause an effect is a fact is a fact is a fact.

    Try to get around them, it may work sometimes, but the fact that you have to try and avoid a blowback is indicative that something almost karmic in the universe is at work.

    Do I believe in karma? No. I don't believe in sin or absolute morality either. We are basically big apes, we are only smart enough to be dangerous. Free will? You can only be free to make the best choice if you are aware of them, can we ever be well-enough informed or well-enough aware? Probably not, we are just making all this stuff up as we go along.

    Free will indeed, I call it the great big monkey dance
  12. Kas
    The idea here is that virtually everything perceptible is an effect. You're born and you react and you react and you react and you react a little more and then you die.

    That's one reason why people buy into the idea of a creator.

    The more relevant facts you know about something, the more likely you are to accurately predict what will happen next. People are objects. If you knew everything about a person, every atom in their body, every flicker of perception, you would know exactly what that person would do in any situation. Relevant facts. If you have them all, there's nothing much left. Efects. Reactions.

    That's one reason people do not believe in creators.

    Understanding that everything I do is a reaction to something else doesn't phase me. It doesn't cause me to shirk my responsibilities.

    I'm willing to accept that life as we live it does not make sense. If you need life to make sense, you come up with delusions or you become depressed.
  13. Kas
    Well, at least I put it more nicely and I haven't been shot yet. Time will tell, however. Perhaps you are the next great prophet. And leprechauns will take my eyelids to use as materials in the creation of a new universe. Yep, that's all they need. My eyelids.
  14. Kas
    I don't think you should change your view if it makes you depressed. Mostly, I don't give a CS (Lewis book).
    Um. No. It implies that you changed your view as a result of something. AKA effect. I posted this in reaction to something and then you reacted to me by posting and some people reacted by refuting and ignoring me and some people may have even been shaken for a second (not likely) and so the effects go on. And on. Like the practice of masturbation and the unexplained disappearance of a *lot* of socks.
    Ordindarily, I'd say, "Great! That was the whole damn point, so you get a cookie and a brand new pair of socks!" But now I'm starting to wonder if thinking about **** like this really does us any good. I feel another pointless blargh--I mean blog--coming on. . .
  15. HorusEye
    You need not worry whether your typing does any good, since you never had a choice against typing it.

    I see determinism in practical use when "bad people" blame everyone and everything but themselves for their actions. It's really quite common, because determinism gives you huge amounts of freedom -- ignoring the inherent paradox.

    Now I will lie down on my back and await fate bringing me good things.
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