If you think you won the debate, you lost more than you could imagine.

By Aaron Smith · May 16, 2020 · ·
  1. It is a common notion on internet debate forums that debates can either be won or lost. And to look past the masturbatory semantics endevor that discussions on said forums typically - almost by law - dissolve into, then the apparent concession of your opponent does not mean that you are by any stretch right. This in itself is in fact a fallacy, as it may very well be the case that your opponent holds the - for the lack of a better expression - objectively correct stance, but due to a lack of formal education or general research in the field, they cannot properly defend the position. A very good example: some Flat Earthers have synthesized quite comprehensive models for why the Earth is flat, which in their frame of reference is apparently consistent with science. Now, a professor of physics, cosmology, astronomy, or alike could probably debunk such nonsense with ease, but someone with a high school level of understanding of science could not. In such case, any withdrawal from a debate would not equal a concession in the eyes of the spectators. But for less transparent fields, for example politics or the finer aspects of philosophy, then it becomes much less obvious who is right or wrong, and the most eloquent debater is typically perceived to have won.

    Winning a debate, in the traditional sense, is inherently fallacious, bar perhaps a few very specific situations. Losing, however, and again in the traditional sense, either teaches you something new or motivates you to learn more. I'd say, then, he who loses, truly wins.

Comments

  1. big soft moose
    ahem either 'won or lost', not 'one or lost'
      Aaron Smith likes this.
  2. Friedrich Kugelschreiber
    But if the concept of winning a debate is inherently fallacious, isn't it necessary that the same be true for losing one?
      Steve Rivers likes this.
  3. Aaron Smith
    That's exactly my point. That winning and losing a debate in the traditional sense is fairly meaningless, as he who "wins" gains very little and he who loses gains something. You may say that the relationship is inverted!
  4. Steve Rivers
    I think you're right, Aaron. You'd definitely win the debate on that subject.
    :supergrin:
  5. O.M. Hillside
    It depends on your goals. If the debate is to convince an audience, then there emerges an objective standard to designate a victor or loser. If this debate is being judged, then the winner or loser is decided by the criteria of the judges. Then it can be judged based on a number of things. Maybe the judges judge the speakers based on how well they already agree with the points being made. Or maybe they judge based on the rhetorical skill/pathos of the speaker. Or the use of solid argumentation, mastery of logic regardless of premise. Maybe the judge wants to see references to authority, those things which traditionally were like "I win" buttons because they referred to things that people generally held true. Peer reviewed research, which turns out to sometimes be a circle jerk. History, which everyone has their own interpretation. More and more, we don't have common foundation. So ethos starts to become a nonfactor. Your expert says this? Well so what, my expert says that.

    But more to the point: "winning" a debate is entirely circumstantial. If you want to change someone's mind by debating and they don't? You do lose, imo. If you want to learn something by either seeing if your viewpoint can stand up to examination or be updated based on new information, and you do either one, then you win. If you're in a foul mood and want to embarrass someone, but you are the one who gets embarrassed, you lose. Maybe you just wanted to blow off some steam? Well, congrats you miserable fuck. You won.
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