Regarding Censorship in the Forums

By Arathald · Mar 22, 2011 · ·
  1. I'm rather upset right now, and I feel that writing a rant here is the best way for me to vent my frustration. Why am I so frustrated? Well, it's not just one thing, it's a lot of little things in the past few days that have added up to make me feel this way.

    First, let's talk about my signature, but, before we do, I need to give you a little background. When the recent earthquake and tsunami hit Japan, I was devastated. I studied as an exchange student over there, and seeing such destruction wipe through a country I grew to love as a second home while I was away was very difficult for me. In response to this, I began using the following as my signature:
    The second part of this signature is a traditional Japanese poem that I believe encompasses an very important aspect of the Japanese spirit, and I provide a full translation of it into English. The first is a Japanese expression that very roughly translates as "I'm praying for Japan." Even though this is the most common translation into English, it's a very crude butchering of the actual Japanese phrase, which is more general and secular than the English translation, implies a strong sense of referring to the physical and spiritual health and well-being of the country, and also has a strong element of hope that may not come across very well in the English. In short, the English translation doesn't do it justice.

    My signature was removed, and when I asked, it seems that it violates a rule about foreign language in posts that I overlooked, as I was searching specifically in the rules pertaining to signatures. This is perfectly fair, I can't have a signature that violates the rules. I asked if it was permissable to use if I provide a verification of the English translations to assure the mods that the Japanese text contains nothing inappropriate. When I provided the translations and independent verification of them, I was asked why I couldn't just use the English version, and, even though I explained this in detail, I haven't heard back from the mods in over 24 hours, despite seeing many other posts from them. While this doesn't scream of intentional censorship, I feel that I was left hanging, and I don't even know if I'm going to be allowed to express my solidarity with the people I grew to love when I lived in Japan, at least in the way that I feel is most appropriate to do.

    EDIT: I missed that Cogito removed the foreign text from his signature in response. While, frankly, I think it's silly, since the Japanese text in my signature can be easily verified to not contain anything inappropriate to the forum, and I provided means to do so, this is at least fair, and is a consistent application of the rules, so I withdraw my first point.

    The second and third parts of my rant deal with a post that another member made in one of the review forums. The post said, in part "Gay men don't need condoms. I'm sure that comes off as common sense." I believe this is a damaging statement to make. It isn't presented as a matter of opinion, but as a matter of scientific and medical fact. I'm not convinced the commenter wasn't trolling, but, even if he was, I think it's an important enough issue to correct the misinformation, lest someone take it seriously. I posted a response to it, which was soon deleted by mods as offtopic. In fact, several other members also posted responses, and the only comment that was allowed to remain was the original nonsense. I believe the mods failed in this regard, because they allowed a user to make potentially harmful comments, while, perhaps unintentionally, censoring all disagreement concerning it.

    Since I thought it was an important enough issue, I started a separate thread in the Lounge (the general forum) to give people a place to discuss it and to provide links to scientific and medical information to help people to inform themselves about this topic, and in an otherwise on-topic post, I linked to this thread from the other, telling users that the offtopic discussion was being redirected there. Once again, censorship reared its ugly head. This time, it wasn't the mods, but rather other users. Two users posted comments on the thread stating, basically, that no one wanted to discuss it, and that it doesn't warrant its own thread. Now, let me ask you: how many times have you seen topics that you thought no one wanted to talk about, and didn't deserve their own threads? And did you ever, even once, think it was appropriate to respond to the thread only to say "this shouldn't be a thread"? No, of course not, unless the thread was off topic to the forum it was posted in. If you don't think a thread is worth discussing, then just don't f***ing post in it! Frankly, I don't care what you think of the topic I'm posting about, your opinion about it isn't the only one that matters, and your posts are themselved off topic to the thread. If I want to discuss it, let me, and if no one else does, let the thread die. This may have not been intentional, but I'm sure the fact that this topic was one that people tend to be more uncomfortable with, because it both deals with sex and with homosexuality, had something to do with these posters' reactions.

    I feel that, in the time I've used this forum, my thoughts and expressions have been repeatedly censored, albeit with no conscious intention to censor them. Am I particularly unlucky in this regard, or is it just the culture of these forums to subconsciously censor unfamiliar points of view? I'm not saying anything inappropriate, harmul, or too mature for these forums, yet what I have to say is being suppressed. I would think, as writers, we would be much more open and willing to try to understand where others are coming from, but the experience I've had here so far has been much less inclusive than just about any other group I've ever associated with. Whether I decide to remain here or not depends on how free I feel to express myself in the near future. Please don't let me down, because, besides these points, I really do like it here, and I think these forums have a lot to offer.

Comments

  1. Banzai
    Okay, let me address your points one at a time, as best I can.

    Firstly, the signature. The rules are clear in this regard. We don't allow foreign language content, because we cannot police it. You could be advertising paid services or anything, and the mods wouldn't know because none of us are able to speak/read Japanese. It's not censorship, you're perfectly welcome to leave the English (though you complain that the English doesn't do it justice, since this is an English language forum, and there are very few Japanese speakers here, that will be the only impression most users get rid of it).

    Secondly, the condom issue. Firstly, review threads are for reviews and comments on the pieces posted. They are categorically not for debating other reviews, regardless of what you think of them. Whether or not the original post (which I too think was a troll) should have been deleted now is immaterial, since it has formed the reference subject matter of your new thread.

    Starting another thread about the issue is fine by me. I think that most of the other people's objections to it were that they consider it common sense, and don't think that it's likely to be a serious issue that people would consider that one post to be gospel. Just as you have a right to start the thread to state your opinion, they have a right to state that they don't think it's an issue. To deny them that is the very censorship you rail against yourself.

    I certainly don't think there has been any homophobia expressed.
  2. Arathald
    I wouldn't have asked for an exception, except for the fact that Cogito, who was the mod who responded to me, has foreign content in his signature. He responded with "If you limit the use, and it is clear that it is a translation, okay." I provided a verifiable translation, and feel that the issue has now been ignored.

    EDIT: I missed that Cogito dropped the foreign text from his signature in response, so I withdraw my first point.

    The new thread was specifically in response to what I and others (based on comments I saw) thought was a failure, in that our posts were deleted while the original stayed. While deleting that post at this point wouldn't really do a whole lot of good, that doesn't mean that this never happened or shouldn't be learned from.

    Yes, they absolutely do, but they shouldn't be doing so in a way that disrupts other user's rights to state their minds, and their posts were disruptive to the thread. One person's rights shouldn't stretch so far as to interfere with another's.
  3. art
    Would be nice if you could stay around!

    A not uncommon complaint is that the moderating style hereabouts can be somewhat brusque. Certainly, you are not being picked on.

    Many users of the internet have a somewhat more flippant, somewhat more carefree to approach things and to my mind, are better placed to deal with these sorts of matters. Merely an observation.

    Hang about, be largely pleasant and, after a fashion, you can get away with murder.:)
  4. Arathald
    I don't feel that I was specifically picked on, as indicated by this sentence from my post: "Am I particularly unlucky in this regard, or is it just the culture of these forums to subconsciously censor unfamiliar points of view?"

    I don't know if my experience is a fluke or not, I haven't been around long enough to tell, but my comments were on the feeling I've gotten from the forums as a whole; my examples just happen to be the ones most readily available to me, and the ones that upset me the most.
  5. PurpleCandle
    Just wanted to say, on the condom issue...

    While, I actually agree with your post in the lounge and I thought it was brave of you..some people are just not that open minded. I do see some homophobia once in awhile in here. Unfortunately, with so many members you are going to have a few people like that..

    But, NEVER let people like that run you off. If you do, they win.
  6. Forkfoot
    This forum is moderated with an iron fist. I would not be even slightly surprised if this blog itself got deleted soon, and would in fact be mildly surprised if it survived till sunrise. The way this forum is moderated can get extremely frustrating, and frankly you don't seem like the type that handles frustration very well. Maybe it's not for you.

    For the record I resented being called a homophobe in your Lounge post, and I resent your repeating it here. I have nothing against gays, I just thought the call-out thread was tacky and unnecessary, and that you'd do well to chill out a little.
  7. Bay K.
    PHEW!!!

    Thank goodness we got holes in our bodies! Otherwise, we'd be dead from internal combustion!

    Now that we done let it all out (it's all out, right?), let's all take a step back and breathe. Wooo!

    If there were a bar on this site, I would 'a bought everyone a round ... shoot! several rounds. (Proof of legal age required :) ). This is when a cold Bud is sorely needed.
    True! True! :)

    Let's keep to the rules and respect everyone, people. That's the bottom line!

    I hope the moderators quickly and prudently look into all the issues presented, to adequately resolve them.

    I think it's safe to say we all like it here --and just want to be comfortable.

    PEACE, not just in the Middle-East, but here too.


    -------------------------------------------------
    Be good, wise and strong --or don't be at all
  8. Arathald
    Saying that you may have reacted differently to an issue because it's controversial is worlds apart from calling you a homophobe. People often react differently not towards one side of an issue, but towards any discussion of that issue. I'll freely admit that I do this myself sometimes with some issues, not out of prejudice towards one side or the other, but simply because it's controversial, and we tend to have knee jerk reactions when we hear certain issues discussed, no matter who is saying what about them.

    Besides, I was referring at least as much to the fact that we were talking about condom use and sex, which, especially when discussed in a more frank manner, can make people uncomfortable.

    I understand that you think my thread wasn't necessary, but several other people, myself included thought otherwise, and it certainly wasn't a "call-out thread". I mentioned multiple times that this wasn't directed only, or even primarily, at the person who originally posted, and I even removed the poster's name from the thread to make my intentions more clear.

    Fine, you don't think the thread was worth posting. Several of us disagree, which is why I posted the thread. Besides to decide whether you are going to follow them or not, I don't see why you need to be policing the forums deciding which threads merit discussion and which don't. You also suggested that I should handle my issue (which you percieved as calling someone out, but I've already explained -- twice -- why this isn't the case) over PM, while you ignored your own advice and called me out in a public post, in a manner which was disruptive to the thread. These are the things I took issue with. The topic of discussion was only incidental to those.

    So you think my answer should be to immediately give up and quit, instead of calling attention to the flaws in the system in the hopes that they be fixed? Sorry, not my style. (Maybe you've noticed by now?)

    My own suggestion of leaving was in response to the overall culture of the forum and its users, not to what I've seen from the mods.
  9. LordKyleOfEarth
    I'm Just passing through, but wanted to add that the above content (and the thread that initiated it) are very well suited to the blogoshere.

    @ Forkfoot, this blog will do fine and I highly doubt the MODs will mess with it. MODs are like the police, the forum is a highway system, and the blog section is like your personal backyard. You have to get pretty wild to have the MODs visit you here.

    @Arathald, No hard feelings here mate. I look forward to interacting further with you in other threads.
  10. Forkfoot
    Not the way you do it, it isn't. You're doing it still with your "knee-jerk reactions" hogwash. I thought your post was douchey, and it had nothing to do with the fact that it contained "controversial" subject-matter like homosexuality. I have gay family members and co-workers, and would probably have gay friends if I were the type to go out and make friends with people. Never even enters my mind that homosexuality is something "controversial".

    I thought it was tacky and unnecessary; I find the fact that you are so outraged by my saying so more than a little astonishing.


    My ideal answer to the problem would be for you to thicken your skin and take a chill pill.
  11. Arathald
    @LordKyleOfEarth, You seem reasonable enough, and you only posted once, so you weren't a major contributor to the thread disruption. I don't by any means expect to see eye-to-eye with everyone on every issue, so I'm more than happy to agree to disagree, if that's the case. I'm sure you don't have to think too hard to remember a time you had a disagreement with even a close friend :p

    If I had thought of putting it up as a blog first, I likely would have at the time, since I could have linked to it and acheived at least my original intent, but it seems enough people wanted to discuss it, or at least see it put up in a thread, that I don't think it was the wrong decision.

    Interpret it however you want, but I made it very clear what I was saying.

    Did you purposely ignore my point, or are you accidentally glossing over the parts you don't want to hear?

    I was never outraged by you saying so. Maybe I might have been a little annoyed, or put off, but I've said multiple times that I believe you have the full right to express your view, as much as I do. The thing that really frustrated me was the manner you went about doing it. You're calling me a douche for calling someone out in public, yet you did it to me. Your point was completely hypocritical. You also did so in a way that disrupted the thread, as if you didn't want people to talk about it. If you're going to advise someone to do something, don't break that very advice in doing so. It makes your point meaningless.

    I'm not going to respond to your same attacks again, as you obviously choose not to pay any attention to my responses. If you have something new to say that I haven't already responded to clearly, I'll gladly consider it.

    Edit: By the way, you're the only one who has remained completely hostile to me. It's clearly not a huge segment of the forum, like it appeared before. I can more than deal with one of you.
  12. Forkfoot
    I've seen blogs deleted for much lesser offenses.
  13. Forkfoot
    See, this is a lot more chill. Now we're getting somewhere. This is nice.
    And I can totally live with that; I'm glad we found a way to meet in the middle. Gimme a hug, ya big lug.
  14. Terry D
    It's been my experience that rules on these forums are enforced in a very inconsistant manner. Signature rules in particular are ignored as moderators see fit.
  15. Bay K.
    Here, here!
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