The pain of point of view.

By Richach · Mar 2, 2020 · ·
  1. Oh cripes! The moment that I realised I could have chosen a different point of view for my beloved manuscript and it would have been so much easier. Certainly, easier to write. It didn't hit me like a train exactly but all the same, I have had something to think about recently.

    The thing is, I am presuming that publishers and agents like things to be nice and straight forward. Easy if you like. They could see problems far more quickly than us writers. This is why I am starting to worry about my choice of point of view.

    To be fair to the story, readers seem to navigate the complexity of 3rd person and are lapping up the multi-story threads, but I wonder if I am walking into a niche market which is what I don't want.

    If I might explain: My point of view character are in a kind of unintentional Christmas tree formation. Two MC's take the lion share of the action (lets say 65%). Underneath supported by another two MC's who play significant roles (maybe 35% and they share these scenes apart from the main two MC's). Then there are five MC's that play a lesser but reasonably significant role without p.o.v. At the bottom somewhere is the antagonist that is lurking under the foliage waiting for his moment to steal the show - although that little upstart will have to wait his turn, he is hardly allowed to speak, let alone p.o.v. Then there are many characters that have been introduced for depth and future roles of some sort.

    I am entirely confident that I have used multiple 3rd p.o.v correctly and consistently. Beta readers have responded positively but one seems to have been flawed by the point of view changes and multiple threads.

    Closed third person would have been a doddle. This story if it works will have the scale of GOT & LOTR but it is certainly not a Silmarillion. I wish that someone could point a stick at what is wrong. I wonder should I take the easier road which would be Harry Potterish...

    Are there any more experienced writers than myself that can lend a helpful perspective on this for me? Send me a direct message if you prefer.

Comments

  1. Wreybies
    What you've not mentioned is the structure of your 3rd person scaffolding in this story, or at least what you have mentioned is vague in the extreme.

    3rd omniscient?

    3rd limited? This sounds more like what you're describing, and if it is, what scheme are you using for the POV changes? Only at chapter boundaries? Within chapters?

    In order to help with a direction, we must know whence thou came thus far.
      Richach likes this.
  2. Richach
    Yes, it is multiple third person so maintaining p.o.v for a character in a scene or chapter. Being careful not to break such rules by head hopping. I thought it was written correctly but now I am not sure.
  3. Wreybies
    Okay, so you still haven't really hit the term, but I'm assuming you mean rotating 3rd limited. The thing is, there is no rule, so don't look for it. There are simply ways it can be deployed and outcomes that result from those deployments.

    You mentioned the GoT books - good example to use for a few things:

    1) Not all the important people need to have a POV deployment. - The Clegane Brothers (The Mountain and The Hound) never have POV chapters. As important as they are, we only ever engage them through the filter of more central characters.

    2) These books only ever change POV character at the chapter boundary. - Where you break for a POV change is going to be up to you and it's going to depend on so many other factors. Personally, I follow the "at chapter boundaries only" pattern myself. I personally find it more grounding to stay with one character for an entire chapter. It helps me to focus on why this character at this time in this place. Flipping back and forth, scene to scene, for me, makes it too easy for me to abandon the why. It also helps to more clearly establish the individual narrative voice of each character. No, not the dialogue, the narrative. In 3rd limited, the narrative is supposed to be indicative of the POV character's mode of thinking and engaging the world. When you switch with frequency, this can be very hard to establish and you end up with a very homogeneous voice for everyone and that homogeneity is the beginning of reader confusion as to who's who in a particular section.

    3) Stories don't have to be as sprawling and huge as GoT and LotR to make use of rotating 3rd limited. The Expanse books are also written this way. For tighter stories, I personally find that the baton pass of rotating 3rd limited helps keep the story moving. Nothing gives me Forest Whitaker Eye like a story that stalls into naval gazing, which was the reason I just could not finish the Endless Sagas of Westeros. Spectacular potential that got too self indulgent and basically stopped caring that I, the reader, was there. That's just my 2p there.
      Richach likes this.
  4. Richach
    I agree entirely with your take on 3rd person rotating. I don't profess to be a genius writer but I am sure that the book is written in a consistent rotating 3rd p.o.v. The thing is, when it is your first book and you use that p.o.v and have multiple story threads and overall book and series arc, it doesn't take much to undermine my confidence I guess. Especially when you first start showing it to people. That is probably all it amounts to.
  5. Wreybies
    With that said, then my only advice is to cut yourself some slack and know that even the most wildly well-received books and series written in the narrative mode you've chosen still have issues, and these are pro writers.

    - In the Game of Thrones books, GRRM does an amazing job of capturing the individual thought schemes of each character in their respective chapters... until he doesn't. He makes a choice in these books that gets under my skin. Such excellent attention to individual characters, and he still makes every single character report the most lavishly detailed clothing descriptions the character sees other characters wearing. In a Sansa chapter, it makes perfect sense. She's all about the trappings and regalia of a noble Lady. Her sister Arya, on the other hand, detests all of this. It's a prison to her. And still she reports just as lavishly as Sansa, which makes ZERO sense (this is technically narrative intrusion).

    - In The Expanse books, the writers (two writers using one pen name) do a much better job of not allowing the kind of narrative intrusion mentioned above, but they don't come anywhere near as close as isolating the individual voices of the characters in the narrative (not the dialogue), save for exceptional standouts like Avasarala.

    So don't beat yourself up if a few critics point out things they notice. The two series I just mentioned got the full screen treatment and everything.
      Richach likes this.
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