We Must All Be Insane

By Atari · Mar 12, 2009 · 747 · 6
  1. A while back I went to a Youth camp run by a youth pastor from my church. (Family Worship Center, actually)

    While I know that these people love God, I will NEVER return to another youth camp for the rest of my life.

    The rules were deathly strict and we had these two guys who were roomed with us that couldn't shut up when it was time to sleep. Agh. Man, I hope to forget that week.

    In the Youth camp, you HAD to be awake at a certain time, you had to go to ALL services and BE ON TIME, and you had walk in orderly fashion with the rest of the students (I say 'students' because this was more like a third-grade field trip) AT ALL TIMES.
    I can't emphasize enough how restricted and closed-in I felt. The smugness of some of the. . . I can't think of a word for them. They are basically one level higher than a mere 'camper,' and they make sure people are in the right place at the right time.

    They were some of the worst.

    The entire experience was like living in a police state.
    Once you got to know the teenagers, however; you understood why it was so heavily handled. You don't send wild, disreputable teenagers out to a camp without severe supervision. (AH! That's the name; supervisors)

    But what did this tell me? Me, a kind, courteous, generous young man? One who doesn't lie, cheat, steal, murder or so much as tease people?
    It said, "You're a potentially bad person, and need to be controlled in every manner of your life."
    And, oh sure, when I was a little late or not quite on the ordained path, the supervisors were immediately there, ushering me into line like a stray during the Thousand-mile death-march.

    But when my roommates kept me awake all night? When they swore constantly and persistently? When they spoke vulgarities? When I asked to be moved?
    Silence.

    Because they didn't really CARE about me. They were 'busy,' I am sure. They were concerned only with being certain they did not get sued or lose a kid or what ever.

    I was so controlled-- agh!

    And the whole time I wondered, "Are people so terrible that we just ASSUME they are evil and should have every faucet of their life controlled?"


    Then I came to the writer's forum.

    I saw the topic about wanting to make a debate thread, and IMMEDIATELY I was dismayed to see that the general consensus amounted to:

    "We are all pugnacious, rude, argumentative lunatics. If we had sub-forum for simple debate, there would be animosity, anger, flame wars and hate because we CANNOT BE CONTROLLED! So instead, let us opt to not have the topic at all, because everything that can potentially be bad in some regard should automatically be either heavily policed or terminated preemptively."

    I just feel like there is no FAITH! I understand the arguments for why there should not be one, and honestly, I don't care about a debate sub-forum, necessarily. What DOES annoy me is that we all just ASSUME that everyone here is a raving madman with nothing better to do than stalk people, hack into computers and hate everyone out of sheer malice because there's a debate forum.

    Incidentally, 'debate' and 'argue' are mutually separate words. (And don't give me the SECONDARY definitions of 'debate' which mean 'to argue,' because you know that those definitions are not the ones I am referring to)

    debate >noun 1 a formal discussion in a public meeting or legislature, in which opposing arguments are presented.

    That is the kind of debate sub-forum which should be issued.
    Calm, rational discussion of apposing viewpoints. Debate.

    That's all I wanted to say.

    - Atari

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  1. Ghosts in Latin
    There's a very fine line in judging people, there is. I, personally, have a relatively pessimistic view when it comes to man, and revere the knowledge of there being people like you, for example.

    I have noticed that man being inherently evil is a common theme in religion, as well.

    I also have a tendency to relate too many things to what I'm currently reading (I'm reading 1984), and can't help but to draw a line between the general negative feeling toward people, the actual degradation of people (perhaps exacerbated by the general negative feeling), and the increasing ease with which people can be controlled.

    Aaand. . . I've rambled. :)
    Ghosts in Latin, Mar 13, 2009
  2. Atari
    Please, continue to ramble at your leisure. I do so enjoy a good ramble.
    Atari, Mar 16, 2009
  3. Lavarian
    Man, that camp sounds awful. It is also likely guilty of pushing some people away from the whole idea of Christianity, which, would indeed be a tragedy.

    I'm afraid I lucked out. The camps I attended in my youth were all quite laid back and rather pleasent. Sure, we had scheduled Chapel sessions, but how you got there, when you left to get there, and who you went with was all up to you so long as you were there. And really, the only reason I think it was enforced at all was because of the possibility of children going unsupervised since all the adults and councilors were at Chapel.

    The only real rules that were enforced that I can remember was boy/girl relationships. It was okay to have a girlfriend but no PDA was allowed, which, I feel, is completely reasonable. No one likes eating lunch whilst two people next to you are sucking face.

    I wonder if the people who ran your camp realized that they were simply pushing people away. It doesn't sound like they were acting very Christianly. We all make mistakes, but to run a center for Youth that exercises those mistakes as standard procedure...is, to be frank, disgusting.

    Sorry for your experience, man.
    Lavarian, May 1, 2009
  4. Atari
    Interesting you should mention this, Lavarian.
    I can't REEEALLY blame the camp, since they get HUNDREDS of attendants and there have been. . . uh, incidents. I think it also has something to do with being sued.
    It is, after all, Family Worship Center; a large and well-known church all over the world.

    The rules at YOUR camp seemed very reasonable and fun.
    I have to say that MY family seemed to be the ONLY people to have a problem with it. Everyone else was just having a grand ol' time.
    Very few of them were probably Christians at all, and were probably accustomed to such strict watch, if you know what I mean.

    Ten points for you, for saying 'sucking face,' which is a hilarious description.
    Atari, May 15, 2009
  5. daturaonfire
    This is an interesting post. I think people do inherently have the tendency to be unkind and selfish. And I think one of our great failures as Christians is to forget that about ourselves. So instead of saying, "I need to make sure I'm being the most loving person I know how to be, because someone else really loves me," we say, "I need to monitor and control everyone's behavior." Which leads to situations like yours at camp. We get it all backwards: Wash your hands! Stand in line! When it should be, I love you, I care about you, so will you please wash your hands so you don't get ecoli? I got rather off point there, but I was just thinking, if one person shows respect and courtesy in a debate, usually others will follow their lead. And since you can't make another person respectful and courteous, it's up to us as individuals to be that way. And then just ban the crazy stalkers, right?
    daturaonfire, Sep 6, 2009
  6. Atari
    Beautiful, kind response. I'm years late to say it, but it must be said.
    Atari, May 10, 2013
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