Actually, you indicated that authors who write characters who swear are not honorable. That looks an awful lot like judging to me. Then again, I may have misunderstood the first sentence of your post, so if I'm wrong, please do correct my surmise. Also, you said: The simple answer is 'yes.' Is Stephen King famous enough? Some of his characers swear. Same thing with George R.R.Martin and oh so many other authors who are generally considered famous. I agree with Malo Beto: it bothers me much more to see an author try to cover up swearing than having an author write characters who swear. I'm also a huge fan of realism and fact is, people swear. A lot of people all around the world. In fact, I'd argue most people on this planet swear, so omitting it, pretending they don't, or circumlocuting it extensively detracts from the work's realism (in many cases, that is), in my opinion. That being said, I'd rather not publish my writing than to cut out every single swear word. If I'm to have my works make it some day, I'd want them to reflect my vision and it just so happens that it does include at least some swearing even though I agree with most here that too much is simply too much (duh).
I think that a character that swears that much has an annoying manner of speech. Just as you probably wouldn't give a first-person narrator other annyong speech patterns ("And, y'know, he, like, got in the car and, like, he turned the key and, like, y'know, the car started...") it would be best to eliminate an annoying frequency of swearing. Used that much, the words cease to have any real meaning or function, and words without meaning or function should usually be cut.
>> Actually, publishers are all about what will reach the most people. What will sell well. If you have a publisher willing to publish something that won't sell well, you've found a crappy publisher. << You're wrong. Some very good publishers are not about producing mainstream novels for a mass market. That is why there is a whole load of cult classics that publishers were brave enough to put out -- even in the face of having them banned. George Bataille. Alexander Trochi. Derek Raymond. Dan Fante. All of these writers (and the list goes on), when they were first published, did not sell well. Even now, most of the reading public will never have heard of them. It's a good job we do have publshers willing to put their principles before profit, otherwise many books that we now know as literary classics would never have been put out. So, no. A publisher that produces underground literature is not necessarily "crappy." It goes without saying that, novel for novel, Dan Brown outsells Vladimir Nabakov. But I know who the better writer is -- and I am pleased the publisher who introduced Nabakov to the world wasn't just looking for financial success, but raher was good enough to have foresight.
I was focusing on writers who want to write for a living, but you've made a valid and interesting point. I will also grant that advertising to a niche market can be very very profitable.
I'm trying to think of good writers from the last century that didn't at least cuss a little... not much is coming to me.
What's annoying is pretty subjective though. Yeah, too much is too much is too much, but e.g. Jay McInerney's character, Alison Poole, who narrates The Story of My Life, she says "like" a lot, too much to some probably, but I liked it because it was obviously a part of the character's speech and she did have an interesting story to tell. Another example I can think of is Helen Walsh's character Jamie in Brass. He repeatedly says "if truth be told" and "la", so much so it could piss off some reader. Again, that didn't bother me, it somehow made his voice recognizable (it was other things that made him an awful character to me). Of course the f-bomb can be even worse to many, if it's being thrown about a lot. But I still think that if it sounds natural for the character, if you can hear a real person speak like that, you should keep it the way it is.
Let us not forget Howl and Other Poems published by City Lights, which sparked the now famous 1957 obscenities trial.
I like to save profanity (if I use it all) sparingly for impact if the need arises. If you constantly use it, it loses its flavor like a piece of over-chewed gum. With that said, there is plenty of ways to convey swearing without using the actual words--ways that will make your reader imagine what your character said, usually amounting to something worse than you intended anyway. But without all the fuss or alienation of certain readers.
Television writers have found ways to write powerful stories for decades while laboring under restrictions against swearing. Sure, the restrictions have eased, but there are still markets (and time slots) that severely limit it. Now don't shake your head and say, "Those days are ending, so who cares." That's not the point. The point is that profanity is not necessary to good writing, even if it is freely used now. I'm no prude. I can blister the air when it's called for, and I use profanity in my writing. But I use it extremely sparingly. When I do, it has that much more effect because I hold back the rest of the time.
I made up a few curse words for my future world, and included a scene where the protagonist, not having any experience with the dialect, repeats one inadvertently where it is socially incorrect.
That's all well and good, but don't become a slave to what a potential reader might want either. I treat curse words the same as any other word: if it's effective then I'll use it; if it serves no real purpose then I'll get rid of it. Admittedly, I find I often end up toning down the language in the second/third drafts.
Another great (famous) author that doesn't seem to police himself on expletives (let's call them what they are) is Elmore Leonard. He is awesome. Many of his westerns have very few expletives because people didn't use them often in public back then (3:10 to Yuma). Yet his modern works about prisoners escaping and getting back into crime have quite a few. I for one subscribe to the belief that, if I notice, it is likely happening too often. I, personally, do not police myself because that is wrong. If I have fleshed out a solid character and they happen to use a lot of expletives then I just roll with it. I also feel that this is true to life. I have a neighbor that drops the "F-Bomb" every other word despite being educated and middle aged. Some people just do that. My brother-in-law even called him out at a party where kids were (as did many of us did, myself included). After a while, my brother-in-law stopped the niceties and finally said, "If you don't stop saying, 'F*ck' every other word, you are leaving and I am helping you do that," or something similar. My point is, some people do just do that without thinking. My advice is don't think about it at all. Proofread your work and if it seems excessive take a few out. Another great idea for revealing character is putting someone like that in a situation wherein they can't, e.g., in a crowd, at church, etc. to show how they react when they can't just let expletives roll off their tongue. Now that is great character revelation. My two cents, Kelson Hargis (weigh my feedback by web searching Kelson's Challenge or Kelson Hargis and reading my stuff, it's all free--warning some graphic content!)
I didn't want to offend any author at all. What I said was a total thing ( even about myself). Yes, I know sometimes a writer has to attach some swearing to a negative character but it is better it stays in moderate and go not out of the law and the society agreement.
If I'm reading someone's work and they are constantly using swear words, I automatically think that they are either young, inexperienced or both. I think the occasional, "damn" or "Hell" is okay. Just as long as it's not on every page. I will actually become annoyed if a writer is using curse words too much. Leave the swear words for the bar.
i think it depends on audience and characters. some characters seem really fake if they don't swear or have illusions to them swearing. i was reading something supposedly set in a finance company in New York. they went home at 5 pm and did not swear at each other, it was so fake it had to put it down. their are some impressive swears out their that can connect their swears together in what im writing i find it works best sometimes to just have a character say it. it comes of as more genuine and in a lot of groups we are desensitized to swearing. it might just be me and the environment i live in but it feels more real and genuine when people swear occasional.
I know this has been covered once before, but I'm super sorry I just need some advice. Now I know that swearing can scare off a publisher, and I've done my best to refrain from doing just that, going as far as rewriting scenes that I ended up swearing in. However, there's this one particular passage in there that I just can't figure out. (A little insight, my MC is on the run from an agency called the OSA, and is in the midst of trying to evade them. He is speaking to an agent that has a prominent role through the story) Do you know what kind of expenses you’ve caused?” She says to provoke me, still in close proximity. Her breath reeks of spearmint, and her ponytail sways behind her with every word. “Do you know how many incredible agents we’ve had to send after you? A simple teenager?” “Well there’s something you forgot about those ‘incredible agents.’” I try reminding her. I click open the knife in my hand and hold it tight. “Oh yeah?” She challenges. “What’s that?” “I fucking killed them.” I've done my best trying to rewrite it in a way that has the same intense feeling as the last sentence, but I can't get it. I've tried taking the word out all together but to me it falls flat. Other attempts at rewriting that part have failed me. My five test readers have all told me that they enjoyed the scene, and say it's fine. Am I shooting myself in the foot by keeping this or is it alright? Thanks in advance to anyone who gives advice!
I think it's fine. It "scares publishers off" if you're marketing it for a 10-year-old, which I'm assuming you're not.
If you read YA/Teen you'll find examples of books with plenty of swearing in them, and from major publishers. Non-issue.
Not a big deal. If you insist on omitting the swear word: "I killed every last one of them." "I murdered each and every one." "They're all dead."
I don't have an issue with profanity, and the YA audience likely won't. But some parents and some publishers might. It's an artistic decision. If it's what the character would say, and you don't want to compromise, leave it in. Another option though is to use subs like, 'friggin'. I made a few words up for my novel to sidestep the issue. But my main characters are not the kind that would use profanity. Some of the lesser characters would, so the substitute words don't impact the writing
Being honest, I've read lots of YA (mostly because I'm writing one) and the most worst they say is 'sh*t' (Only once, I saw a YA use the F-word) But hey, as the others have said, most people who read the YA genre won't have a problem with some profanity here and there. I'm assuming you're not going to drop an F-bomb every paragraph or so
