White Characters Dominating Fantasy Worlds

Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by MilesTro, May 25, 2015.

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  1. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I'm an aetheist so I don't know my bible that well ( I was raised CofE but that was a long time ago) however the 'being gay is a sin' sites - and boy are there some repellent bigoted fuckwits out there - all seem to quote Corinthians 6/9 as justification

    "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

    Whats the usual rebuttal to that ? (other than telling them to ...ahem... go forth and multiply), its interesting that it specifies men who practice homosexuality so presumably lesbianism is not a sin ?
     
  2. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    A bigoted right wing conservative dolphin :superlaugh: Was he doing it on porpoise ? (sorry)

    I did once start thinking about a sci fi / fantasy thing looking at what if sexuality was a choice ? (partly inspired by the end of the 'forever war').

    My thinking was a futuristic society in which sexuality wasn't fixed and people could choose either way by means of pharmaceuticals and could change at any time.

    It was an interesting premise but I got a bit lost in writing a love dodecahedron and also i was worried that it was to contentious a subject (be easy to wind up being vilified by all sides)
     
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  3. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    John Varley hits a similar topic in Steel Beach. It's not the main premiss of the story, more of a setting thing, but the MC, Hildy Johnson, is pretty insouciant about trading out his wingwang for a hoohah partway through the book, and it seems insouciance describes pretty much everyone. You can put your junk on ice until you're ready to trade back, or not, whatever makes you happy. It's as easy as going for a shave and a haircut. He's disappointed when he finds out that small boobs are all the rage when he decides to make the switch. "As small as that?" he says.

    The things one remembers.... :whistle:
     
  4. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    You can play the telephone game with 10 people speaking the same language and run into copying errors. When you're reading the modern English translations of the original English translations of the original Latin ...
     
  5. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Oh, criminy biscuits, we tread dangerous waters indeed. I'm as guilty as any, so... let's try and bring it back on track.

    No one's in trouble, but... yeah. :whistle:
     
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  6. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Maybe watch some All in the Family.
     
  7. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I'm british so that meant nothing to me until i googled it - though ive seen passing references to 'archie bunker'in american fiction
     
  8. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I was thinking more of people switching from gay to straight to bi etc rather than actual bodily modifications
     
  9. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    BTW, little factoid, as huge a hit as All in the Family was in the U.S., and as quintessentially American as Archie Bunker is, the show is based on an earlier British show, Till Death Us Do Part. I don't know if it's a true reboot, so to speak, as All in the Family was very topical and culturally immersed in Americana.
     
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  10. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    It's a good example of portraying a bigot that the audience both disagrees with and sympathizes with. Or at least part of the audience. As the star of the show once said, half the audience was laughing at Archie Bunker, the other half was laughing with him.
     
  11. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    I always pictured dolphins as being super liberal.
     
  12. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    They're all Hispanic, apparently. Not sure of political affiliation.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. G.A. Kainne

    G.A. Kainne Member

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    There will for ever be a divide so long as we allow it. Many people chose to not see the harsh realities of our social chaos. This is ignorance but you make the choice to be this way it's not something you are born. Evil is neutral it can inspire the best or even the worst in humanity and is indiscriminate of race religion and sex. To be clear in my opinion this is the fault of Holywood and their very peculiar way in choosing what books to make movie adaptations from... Infact I can think of at least one story that featured a overweight child in a book as the main character and yet when Hollywood cast the role it was played by a child that weighed less than 100 pounds... This is wrong and does need to be changed.
     
  14. Xenovista

    Xenovista New Member

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    Do what I'm trying to. Write a fantasy story that's based on a culture that ISN'T medieval Europe.

    Mezoamerica for example, before the Spaniards came. Granted the "Mayincatec" trope exists and these cultures are often mashed together for convenience sake, but I've never seen a novel set solely in such a habit.

    Of course the only foreseeable problem with writing such a work is that the political correctness police, who insist everything is racist because word salad, will get their knickers in a twist.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
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  15. Stormburn

    Stormburn Contributor Contributor

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    I do not think it wrong of you to ask this question. It is one I've asked often and I've had fruitful discussions about.
    That said, writers tend to write what they know. Now, its easy to say, do some research and expand your world. But, look at one of my favorite writers, Robert Howard of Conan fame. Small town Texas boy from the early 20th century who did his world building with books from the local library and reading other works of fiction(such as Lovecraft).
    Writers tend to draw inspiration from impression. Being that books or other media. So, on a certain level, they are retelling characters and stories that has left an impression on them.
    Once I've became aware of this, I as a European descendant American male, make a conscious choice to 'go a different' direction. I've traveled some. I have friends from all over the world. I read literature and view media from regions other than Europe or the US.
    This isn't because I'm on some crusade, it is a more selfish reason; I search for the impression that will inspire me to write something different.
    You are right, the world is lot more than the US and Europe. I see as a goldmine of originality. Clothing, customs, weapons, etc. that is not a rinse and repeat of Conan and the Lord of the Rings. People are just plain cool, and, the best inspiration comes from a person. And, there is a world full of them.
    Hope this helps.
    Godspeed!
     
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  16. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    And I know that straight white men are a 1 in 4 minority in America ;)

    I've never understood the appeal of the version that goes "Write what you know, and don't learn about new things to write about," I've always preferred the version that goes "Write what you know, and don't ever stop knowing new things".

    A few months into my Urban Fantasy WIP, I realized that I wanted one of my villain protagonists to have been raped as a teenager, developed PTSD, and turned to serial murder until she found a job that gave her enough money for professional therapy. When I first came up with this backstory, I did not feel that I knew enough about rape, PTSD, or the fictional portrayal thereof to make my backstory work. And so I started studying.
     
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  17. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I agree with this, but only if one takes the version you mention to heart. Write what you know to the exclusion of all else would make for a literary canon composed of basically only memoirs or mildly fictionalized memoirs.

    Earlier this morning, as I was avoiding the translation project I need to finish today (and I continue to avoid it :whistle:) one of my facebook pals posted something on his page concerning "why I'm tired of white gay men telling queer stories". Part of me understands the gripe when these stories seem to filter me out as a gay latino, but part of me also still feels deeply jealous of the way in which I write my stories and my personal resolve to write the stories that I want to write, not the stories that other people necessarily feel I need to write to fill some ever-changing quota. The fact that my stories check lots of diversity boxes only reflects the fact that I, as a human paradigm, check off a lot of diversity boxes just being me living where I live.

    Now, and to play devil's advocate to myself, of course we need to always be learning, most especially as regards not just subjects, but our own tendencies in writing, the things we have been trained to engage as go-to's. Not long ago I realized that my WIP titled "313" is a 'white savior' story. :bigmeh: That's really disheartening to know that I've spent as much time as I have on that story and it possesses this particular tragic flaw. @Laurin Kelly also turned me to the fact that 'magical healing cock' trope is a thing, and yes, my 'white savior' has one of those too. :dead: My other WIP has a watered down version of 'white savior' trope going on. Jeez... :bigconfused:

    I've retreated to a super-duper old WIP called "La Telenovela" that, at least to this point, seems pretty much clean of any of the aforementioned. It's also such an old WIP that the writing itself was a "stranger" to me, if that makes sense. I was able to read it as though it weren't my own writing and I was pretty happy with what I found. It all takes place in dusty little Latin neighborhood at the edge of time. That's where I'll be if anyone needs me. :bigwink:
     
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  18. rktho

    rktho Contributor Contributor

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    All my characters are dragons. No white people whatsoever.
    Except the daktar cameo and the Rishnaran.
     
  19. Stormburn

    Stormburn Contributor Contributor

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    That is my point exactly. What do we know and why do we know what we do? All all people, we as writers should be asking this question. And, the follow up question at that point is: what do we choose to learn today?
     
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  20. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Especially since non-straight people such as myself spend every second of our lives learning how straightness and straight people work, so clearly it is possible to do it.
     
  21. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    two things

    a) isnt that a bit sad - surely spending every second of your life living it, and not worrying too much about sexuality would be better ?

    b) people are people are people are people... no one is defined by our sexuality so "how straight people work" (or gay people or whatever) isa pointless generalisation. e.g I'd be willing to bet that there are more similarities between me and @Wreybies despite that fact that i'm straight and hes gay, than there are between me and Donald Trump despite us both being straight
     
  22. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I suspect we both have more in common with a bowtruckle than either us do with the Trumpkin. :rofl:

    [​IMG]
     
  23. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    true - the only thing I have in common with thumper is that I wouldn't kick Meliana out of bed
     
  24. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    If "living my life" requires not knowing anything about the world around me, then I'd rather waste it on learning ;)
     
  25. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    there's a difference between not knowing anything and spending every second learning about other peoples sexuality .... theres a huge ammount I don't know about Aro sexuality, but its not something i spend a great deal of time thinking about, just as i don't worry too much about not knowing a great deal about nuclear physics, or clog dancing
     
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