Christian Science Fiction

Discussion in 'Science Fiction' started by Zadocfish, Feb 2, 2017.

  1. NoGoodNobu

    NoGoodNobu Contributor Contributor

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    Oh yes, that was actually my point

    Because Christians are to obey and respect the laws of the land & be good citizens

    But in new direct/indirect democracies where it's no longer the privledged few (wealthy land-owning male citizens), it's everyone's civic duty to vote for laws & leaders.

    So it's no longer simply obediently abide the laws of the land—we actively contribute to shape them. And that's a good citizen.

    But then there are controversial laws influenced by worldview & beliefs—(and while there is a wide spectrum of stances & varied interpretations of scriptures among Christians on these issues) in general Christians aren't going to vote against their conscience & religious belief, wherever it falls in that spectrum.

    So while it isn't the Christian's job to police all of society into conforming to Christian lifestyles by instating laws that force nonbelievers into abiding by Biblical ethics, they aren't going to vote for what they believe doesn't align with their religious beliefs.

    For example, if they live in a country where recreational marijuana is legal, while some flavour of Christians cannot use because they believe scriptures are against intoxication & intentional impaired cognitive states, they are to respect the laws of the land and decisions of their leaders in society partaking.

    Now in a direct/indirect democratic state where a proposition to legalize recreational marijuana is put on the ballot: where do these Christians' duty lie? They are to be good citizens and vote. But their conscience tells them that recreational drug use is sinful. But again it isn't the Christian's place to force nonbelievers into a morally "Christian" lifestyle, just to convert them to Christianity itself.

    So does a Christian with this view vote against the measure, because they can't vote for something they know/believe to be sin?

    Or does this Christian vote for it because it isn't their job to dictate nonbelievers to abide by biblical ethics?

    Or do they refrain from voting, failing to partake in their civic responsibility as a citizen because it's controversial & they're conflicted?

    It's this tension that interests me〜
     
  2. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023 Community Volunteer

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    Would that be Job the biblical character? :D
     
  3. obi-sem kenobi

    obi-sem kenobi Senior Member

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    I, for one, already greatly appreciate it when Christianity is still an established concept in Sci-Fi. Take for example the Ender's Game series, more particularly it's sequel Speaker for the Dead. It's written by a Mormon, so I'll say honestly and upfront that there's a lot of stuff in there that I don't agree with, but the mere fact that he took his story thousands and thousands of years into the future and there is still a Church with a significant presence, already made it an incredible relief for me to read as a Christian.

    The second thing I really liked was that Christian values were treated as 'normal' in his books. The simple concept that when two characters fall in love they might eventually marry each other is almost completely gone in contemporary literature, or Science Fiction at least. In his novels, it was the normal end of every relationship. I really liked that about them.

    So I agree your novel doesn't have to be the allegory that Lewis's was, but I would argue to include values that go a step further than "be good for your fellow man", because this, at least, is something most of the world can still agree on. But when I see exactly those parts of Christianity that are under fire in this day and age, I, as a Christian, will take great comfort in reading it, even if the topic is about something completely different.

    Having said all that, I think the most important thing is not simply trying to think "how can I do this in a way that God approves of it", but ask Him "I want to write a story, how would You like me to go about that?" Our God is a living one, if you ask a sincere question and expect an answer he'll give it to you, one way or another, and guide you through the process. He knows what's on our minds and He knows what's best for us. He has a plan for all of us, so instead of trying to figure it out on our own, the best and first course of action should always be to ask Him what it is.

    I hope that made sense (my head's still stuck on cleaning the house right now) but I hope it helps and hope to read your novel one day!
     
  4. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Isn't that what the OP is doing by asking us ;)

    A man heard on the radio that a hurricane was coming, but he didn't fear because God would protect him. A friend warned the man that the hurricane was predicted to make landfall, but the man didn't fear because God would protect him. A police officer ordered the man to evacuate, but the man didn't fear because God would protect him. The storm hit, the man's neighborhood flooded, and a helicopter came to pick the man off of his roof, but the man sent them away because God would protect him. The floodwaters reached his roof and a boat found him treading water, but he sent them away because God would protect him.

    The man drowned and asked God in Heaven "Why didn't You protect me?" God answered, "I sent the radio weatherman, I sent your friend, I sent the police officer, I sent the helicopter, I sent the boat! What more did you want from Me?"
     
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  5. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023 Community Volunteer

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    I think we're all on the same page with this. Discussions like this are part of the "one way or the other." :superagree:
     
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  6. Stormburn

    Stormburn Contributor Contributor

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    I'm late to the party here, but, as a Christian myself, I would like to throw my coin into the fountain. First off, there are people of faith and people of religion. Religion and faith seldom ever mix. That is the theme of the Christian bible.
    People, in general, love rules. It's makes morality one big game of who is the smartest person in the room. Religious people have their rules and will tell you what to do. But, they are only one part of the people playing the rules game. Every group, regardless of what they are, have these legal buzzards who will go after you too.
    People of faith, it doesn't matter if you are Christian, Muslim or whatever, its about doing what you believe to do because its the right thing to do. And, as people of faith, we can't be too choosy about who our friends are. Legalism has infected most groups in America, from the Evangelicals to the LGBT. There are people who haven't bowed their knee to peer pressure and social pecking. Find them. They are your friend.
    I write horror and fantasy. I consider my work to be 'mature', not in the sense of graphic language, violence or sex, but, in writing about fleshed out characters who situations and the decisions they make are not always so black and white but in the grey area we all know so well. I trust the reader to decide for themselves on what is good and bad, right and wrong without my characters being paragons of virtue or the height of villainy. Without every outcome having a clear cut winner or loser.
    If God is calling you to be writer, then, he is calling you to be a good writer.
     
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  7. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    Art that is faithfully executed and that promotes basic Biblical truths glorifies God. God is the original artist. As long as you endeavor to portray moral truth in your art and not include elements that might cause your readers to sin (1 Cor. 8:9-10), you should have no problem. This is a good resource https://www.storyteam.org/gods-call-to-artists/
     
  8. Stormburn

    Stormburn Contributor Contributor

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    I appreciate your response. You said exactly what I should have said and your link is fantastic.
    Godspeed!
     
  9. Casca

    Casca New Member

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    Generally speaking, I am turned off by Christian fiction. I have never read a piece of Christian fiction that did not come across as preachy and Bible thumping. With that said, I must also admit that my personal experience with the genre is exceptionally limited and I would never dismiss a title merely because of its genre. After all, there are quite a few Christian bands I enjoy and a few of them I was unaware of their affiliation until well after I had become a fan. How could I know a group of long-haired, tattooed men wearing mostly black and calling thems were among the Christ faithful?

    I guess what I am saying is that this is a very difficult problem to help with. Your faith is just that; your faith. At least, it is difficult for me as I have noticed some really great answers in the first page alone.

    In fact, I'm so impressed by some of these answers that I'm not even going to bother trying to offer my own advice. Instead I'd like to recommend a story that may help inspire you, even if indirectly. I said that I am generally turned off by Christian fiction but I tend to gobble up any story with heavy religious overtones and is subtle in its specificity. Even if you're not a fan of graphic novels, I would be remiss not to recommend J. Michael Straczynski's Midnight Nation which is as much about its heavy Christian overtones as it is about how the majority of society treats the homeless and downtrodden as if they are some sort of invisible minority. I'm unsure as to the author's personal religious beliefs but from what little I read concerning his writing this story, it came to him as something akin to an enlightenment.

    The striking imagery aside, the author really makes you think about the Antagonist's words (notice how I capitalize Antagonist, as a Christian I feel that should speak volumes to you) and make you actually sympathize with him all the while not agreeing with him. Ultimately, after you've feasted your eyes on that final panel and (maybe) even whipped away a tear, I would dare say that I view the ultimate them of the story to be about the rewards of faith and, more importantly hope. As much as the non-faithful may struggle with the notion of God's existence, this story struggle with the faith of a person whom has first-hand knowledge of Him and yet is still shown to struggle with her faith.

    And that's enough gushing out of me over one of my favorite stories. I only bring it up because as far as I can see, it does much to contribute to my understanding of praising the glory of God while not beating you over the head with it. It may not put you on a path that brings you closer to God but maybe it can put you on the path to showing other people how you praise the glory of God through fantasy and science fiction.
     
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  10. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    If you want to write sci-fi that deals with outer space, alien worlds, etc, are you wondering how to fit that into the notion of Christianity and world creation, and the Adam-And-Eve story as put forth in the Bible, where none of these things were discussed at all (as far as I'm aware?) You'd need to step outside the perimeters a bit, wouldn't you? Is that the question you're asking us? How to do this and remain within a Christian perspective?
     
  11. joe sixpak

    joe sixpak Banned

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    ==========

    Doing whatever your hand finds to do with all your might in an honest fair ethical manner seems appropriate as long as it is legal and moral, with respect to the honor part.
    Are you saying that instead of working or , writing at all , you should be wandering the land proclaiming the gospel instead, and doing nothing else ?
     
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  12. Ettina

    Ettina Senior Member

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    I'm atheist myself, but I would say that sci-fi/fantasy can be a way to explore the concepts central to your beliefs, without necessarily alienating people who don't share your beliefs. My Christian father and I have had many an interesting conversation about religion and the history of the Bible and so forth, especially since he's been taking Bible studies classes and thinking of becoming a minister. I know that I've had story ideas come out of his discussions with me, because something he said made me want to explore that concept further.

    I would say, first, that just because you have a strong set of values and beliefs that inform your life doesn't mean that every story needs to be about that. If you're inspired to write something, write it, even if you can't see a connection between it and your beliefs. For one thing, you may find elements sneaking in that you didn't expect - like when I had elements of my beliefs around forgiveness and respecting the humanity of people who do evil unexpectedly show up in my story about a group of sentient zombies betrayed by their master. But even if that doesn't happen, if you feel drawn to write a story, that means that there's something of value you're sensing in the story, even if you can't see what it is.

    Also, please, please don't write a story that doesn't inspire you, just because you feel that it sends a message about your beliefs. Whenever I've tried that, it's turned out absolutely terrible, and I've read far too many 'Christian fiction' stories that seem to have come out of that process too.

    And lastly, if you have an antagonist with beliefs that violate your own basic beliefs, you have a responsibility to try to understand how and why it makes sense to your antagonist to feel that way, and make them someone you can understand and empathize with, even if you don't agree with them. This applies to every writer, really, but this tends to trip up 'writers with a message' especially. And it's really offensive when you see a cardboard cutout villian character who shares your own beliefs, and really doesn't help you convince anyone to believe in or even listen to your viewpoint.
     
  13. Myrrdoch

    Myrrdoch Active Member

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    Also, keep in mind that you can also use scifi/fantasy to look at the state of your religion. I have always liked using scifi to explore current issues in a more "comfortable" setting. So if you have any problems with your religion, or even changes you think that need to be made for whatever reason, it could be a good way to express them.

    Also, depending what kind of relationship you have to the Bible (In my experience, Christians range from "it's 100% accurate and correct in every way" to "it's a good, useful book of stories"), you could write something about aliens. And their religious trials and troubles, and in what ways their religion interacts with Christianity. And if their religion is also the Word of God, it might give Christians another frame of reference through which to view their own version of that?

    Really, there's all kinds of stuff you could do, most of which seems more religiously sound than what I'm suggesting. I'm just throwing out alternatives.
     
  14. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Should we start a thread about this somewhere else?
     
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  15. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Have I mentioned how much I love repeating myself?


    -----------------------------------------------
    :stop:
    ETA: For anyone wishing to engage the OP's question, you can engage the question itself or you can find another thread to comment in. If you are here to debate religion with the OP, I will delete your posts without notice and with possible repercussion of an infraction to you. Be ye warned.
     
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  16. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    My apologies Wrey, I responded to a post without realising it was the thread you'd already said that on.
     
  17. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    No worries. I had to trim this thread by nearly a page and I'm still looking at some of the more unwieldy branches.
     
  18. NoGoodNobu

    NoGoodNobu Contributor Contributor

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    I'm very sorry, Wreybies.

    I didn't mean to speak out of line, but I see how it clearly drifted away from the OP's question and thus from your clearly stated boundaries.

    My sincerest apologies.

    *If you need to delete my earlier posts that started the redirection, feel free to do so. I had only meant to have a civil conversation, but I realize how it was the wrong thread based on your prestated boundaries
     
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  19. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    No harm no foul. The chaparral was only smoldering, but you know how chaparral can be. ;)
     
  20. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I think you and I have talked about this book in another thread, yes? Great book. I came across it through an interview with China Mieville that I read. He was reading the book, so, of course, in gushy fanboy form, I needed to read it as well in order to feel like I was sharing a small piece of China's life. (googles images of China and swoons...) :)

    Anyway, yes, what I really liked about this book, though it was a bone that China had to pick with the story, was the humanist direction of the story. The people of faith in that story were not religious versions of Mary Sue and Marty Stue. They were deeply flawed, had crises of faith, and lived in a world where they had to grapple with their secular lives and selves. I thought this presented a very human story and engagement of the idea of love for God. Emilio suffers greatly on his path to find God's grace, and I though I may not share in his epistemology, or agree with what some of what his path had to say, I could certainly engage him as a person and it was a deep engagement. It's not the writer's job to write something I necessarily agree with. It's the writer's job to invoke my consideration, and that was certainly done admirably in this book.

    Also, how often am I ever going to read a story that contains a Puerto Rican linguist, and is Science Fiction, and contains LGBT characters??? :ohno: :-D
     
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  21. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    Having stumbled across this thanks to the fact that the thread seems still to be going, I did find the original question interesting, so I figured I'd leave something here.

    I'm religious (Messianic Judaism - I'll leave that to others to decide whether that means I'm Jewish, Christian, or neither - but suffice to say I'm practicing and on the Abrahamic spectrum), and I do write in the SFF space. I don't overtly write religious fiction, but whoever said it's impossible to keep it from leeching in in right - authorial values always leech.

    A few (highly disjointed) thoughts.

    1) It sounds like you want to stay a good bit closer to the overtly religious content than I do, but I think it's important to point out that content does not have to be about G-d, or even include G-d, to glorify G-d. There are a lot of religious artists producing "secular" art (defined as art that is not overtly religious in content and which is made available to a general audience). I think most people would generally agree that they glorify G-d through their engagement with the cultural debate. Fiction is an art, just like painting. I think most religious people have come to the conclusion that all creation glorifies G-d - and therefore painting a picture of a horse glorifies G-d inasmuch as G-d created the horse, and therefore the image of the horse tells you something about G-d. I think you can make the same case about depicting the Human Experience - if you think G-d created humans, then the struggles those humans face and how they react also shows you an aspect of G-d. Glorifying G-d and depicting G-d are not the same thing. So, my advice would be to not worry about whether your plots are overtly religious in nature - actions often speak louder than pious words, and that goes for characters as well as authors.

    2) If you DO want to write overtly religious fiction, remember that many of the best works of art are those that involve questioning oneself. I don't read a ton of Christian fiction today, but I did when I was younger, and in my experience, the best of it is the stuff that really digs deep - confronting unbelief, disbelief, gray areas between good and evil, and shows the Christian community warts and all (church-goers often treat each other horribly and in distinctly "un-Christlike" manner). One of the big problems I see in Evangelical fiction and cinema is that they tend to reduce everything to cut-and-dry morality plays with happy endings, thinking anything else is somehow unclean. In my experience, the exact opposite is untrue. Frank Peretti, one of the most successful Christian authors of my childhood, wrote flat-out Christian HORROR. He portrayed spiritual warfare literally - and as a reader I got really creeped out that he not only used demons as point-of-view characters, he often made them SYMPATHETIC. Talk about moral gray areas. The other thing that blew up Christian fiction in the late 1990s was the Left Behind series - and let me tell you what made those books work as fiction: First, all of the characters were morally grey. By definition, a pre-tribulational rapture premise means that all the believing Christians are GONE. There weren't many bible-thumpers left in that reality, and the entire cast was made up of the leftovers - and by the way the books made it pretty clear that a lot of those "leftovers" were good people. Second, the book took a nice, hard look at problems within the body of Christ. One of the most memorable scenes in the entire series is in the opening chapters, where we meet Bruce Barnes - the Associate Pastor of a church who is having an existential crisis sitting in his empty church, realizing that all of his congregants are gone but that he was a hypocrite who missed the boat. Third, the books humanized evil. Revelation comes with an Antichrist, and in those books the authors made point of rendering their Antichrist as a fully fleshed out, humanized character (at one point you even feel sorry for him - the point when he finally realizes that Satan doesn't actually care about him and is willing to throw him under the bus). Fourth, those books were well-constructed speculative fiction, regardless of whatever else they were, the dirty secret was that those books were straight-up post-apocalyptic SciFi in the foreground with a very carefully rendered spiritual system in the background - I can and do quibble with the idea of a pre-tribulational rapture and many of the other theological concepts in the book - but I can't fault it as an extrapolation of a pre-tribulational rapture scenario assuming that the dispensational Evangelical church has EVERYTHING right (I think they're pretty solid on roughly how society would unfold if that actually happened.) Another great work of Christian SpecFic (loosely defined) that is worth a look as A Skeleton in G-d's Closet by Paul L. Maier, which deals with a scenario where archaeologists in Israel discover a skeleton that appears to verifiably be the bones of Jesus - and the fact that (massive spoiler) it turns out to be a very intricate hoax is less important than the fact that the book is about the assorted reactions of churches around the world. That's digging DEEP.

    Shorter version - if you're going to write religious-interest fiction - it still has to be GOOD fiction, and you arguably have to be more willing to embrace the darkeness and question yourself than a non-religious writer. If the conflict is spiritual, you're going to have to render your protagonist's moral struggles convincingly, AND render your antagonist compellingly. Neither of those things are comfortable when the opposite side of the plot is also the opposite side of your spiritual spectrum. So, if you do choose to work in an overtly religious context, I would definitely spend as much (if not more) time praying about it and thinking about the moral responsibilities than if you don't. Honestly, I'm more comfortable staying in the secular realm with my fiction precisely because I'm not comfortable with the responsibility that comes with preaching and advising people on spirituality.

    3) It's always going to be an individual struggle on what you should or shouldn't include. Personally, my struggle was at a different cut-off point - dealing with how far I wanted to go in portraying a hyper-real setting grounded in my own city, the way it really is vis a vis language and sex - and even though the story has a lot of moral components, I eventually came down on the side of letting the characters speak for themselves and behave like themselves (some of them curse like sailors and even the nice ones have premarital sex. I'm planning to eventually throw a religious character in the mix to show the contrast without judging either side - but for me the book is ABOUT those tough moral gray areas and embracing the fact that humanity is a mess, so it all went in.) If G-d gave me this story to tell and these characters, and I personally think that in a sense He did, then I have to put their story on the page, not my sanitized version of it. My personal point of view, and I hope G-d agrees with me, is that in the end the human experience itself glorifies G-d, warts and all, and that it's very, very hard to show true light without acknowledging true darkness. Heck, the Bible itself can ben pretty graphic at times (read Judges...wow....), so I tend to personally think that a lot of our hang-ups dealing with graphic storylines are a bit more rooted in Victorian England than they are in the Bible.

    So, there's my rambling thoughts, agree or disagree. But the biggest point I'd make (from a strictly religious standpoint), is that if you think G-d created your brain, and He gave you the ability to write Science Fiction - who are you to say you shouldn't be doing that? It's generally a bad idea to argue with the gifts you're given. Not everyone is meant to be a missionary or a pastor. If everyone were, society would fall apart. Do what you were designed to do - do it in a way that comports with your beliefs - but trust your instincts on things like "what should I write?" If you're religious, you believe those instincts came from someone, right?
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
  22. rktho

    rktho Contributor Contributor

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    What kind of things do you write? Secular things is perfectly fine. Not everything has to be religious, and I say that as a religious person. Secular things are good. Secularism, not so much.
     
  23. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    This ^^^^

    People always like to cite the line "be in the world, not of the world," but nobody ever realizes that it's a double-imperative. There are two ways to violate that dictate: The easy one to recognize is being "of the world" - the other is by not being "in the world" in the first place.
     
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  24. NoGoodNobu

    NoGoodNobu Contributor Contributor

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    I have nothing to add.

    Just wanted to say that that was brilliant, and thank you for presenting your ideas so well.
     
  25. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    I just ramble too much. But thanks :)
     

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