The chapter I am writing seems boring - this chapter introduces a new character.

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Millyme11, Apr 12, 2017.

  1. Millyme11

    Millyme11 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    Thank you for all of the feedback.

    I think that I will go on to chapter 5 and come back to chapter 4 later. I do think that it completely needs stripping and reforming. I need to pinpoint exactly what is essential in the chapter and then build around that.

    Thank you for all of the help. Please continue to post if there is more points and tips that you have for me.
     
    jannert likes this.
  2. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    If Chapter 4 exists purely to introduce a character, is it possible that the chapter is not necessary at all?
     
    Millyme11 and BayView like this.
  3. Millyme11

    Millyme11 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    Chapter 4 isn't in existence purely to introduce a new character, there is also a plot point to the chapter as well.
    The MC starts something that is essential to the plot, whilst doing this he also meets the new character.

    To be honest, I've been hand writing a lot of chapter 4 when I'm away from my computer then typing it up when I'm at my computer again. Could this be another reason I'm bored of the chapter? As I am essentially repeating myself when typing up my written work.

    What do you think?
     
  4. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,889
    Location:
    Scotland
    I'd say avoid trying to reshape what you've already written. Instead, work on pinpointing exactly what the chapter is supposed to do. In other words, 'start over' with a new perspective on the chapter. If you end up using some of what you've written, that's great. But be careful of trying too hard to hang on to stuff.
     
    Millyme11 likes this.
  5. Jupie

    Jupie Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    292
    I would say handwriting it is more of a chore but that's just me. I only like to type, if I'm handwriting, I'd go spare. It can be useful for jotting down ideas but if you're having to do it twice then you might be getting sick of it.

    It's good to know what you want from each chapter. I must admit I sometimes go blindly into writing and the plot reveals itself as it goes along. But luckily most of my chapters seem to end up having purpose, at least. For instance, the current chapter I'm writing reveals two of my main characters running away and escaping home because the King plans to imprison one of them. What follows is them living in the wild for a little while, trying to find their uncle's home and lay low there. The whole point of this would be to show how they try and fend for themselves, live with the practicalities of being away and also how they bond and take care of each other while in the wild.

    But another chapter I wrote early on everything moves slowly, introducing some new characters but arguably not a lot happens. Even so, I like the chapter and feel the slow pace sets up the dynamics between two different groups of people. What it shows is more insight into those times (hunting game, horse-riding, etc) and also sets up for what's to come. So I wouldn't see that chapter as insignificant, as sometimes I enjoy books that take their time and don't necessarily have big plot events at every corner, so long as it doesn't feel like it's just wandering aimlessly.
     
    Millyme11 and jannert like this.
  6. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,889
    Location:
    Scotland
    Yes. Slow certainly doesn't mean 'wandering aimlessly.' You can go slowly, but with purpose, and build things gradually. In fact, if you go slowly, chances are what you're doing will sink in for the reader. The key word here is 'build.' Make sure that what you're including serves your purpose. You want to show the reader ...what? And why? If you can give specific answers to these two questions, then take all the time you need.

    Take your example:
    If the point is to give the reader knowledge of what it takes to survive in the wild—practical techniques for survival which factor into the story later—then survival techniques are what you'll focus on.

    If, however, the main point is to show the characters' relationship and how it grows, then you can use HOW they share their knowledge and work, and how that sharing makes them become closer and more interdependent. You'll spend less time on the actual techniques, and more on how the techniques benefit the two characters. It's all a matter of focus.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  7. Dr.Meow

    Dr.Meow Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    429
    Location:
    Conspiring in my Spaceship
    Yes, I believe what @jannert is talking about is pacing, and deciding the pace of your story is very important. The reader is trusting the author to set the pace, and maintain it at a consistent level. It doesn't have to be completely the same all the time, but it can't suddenly jump to extremely quick to really long all the sudden, or vice-versa. Deciding the pace also decides the audience to some degree. Personally, I respect "long-winded" authors, like Tolkien and Robert Jordan, but if I'm being honest, I actually prefer the pace that Brandon Sanderson takes, for example.

    Also, on that regard, I believe authors like Robert Jordan fell a bit short compared to Tolkien; yes, he was slow and lumbering, but Tolkien also made it very interesting and brought his characters to life a lot more. I'm still having trouble getting through Roberts books, I feel he takes too long and forgets to make us "care" about the characters. I still love his concepts, a lot, but I have a feeling it might be more interesting if he picked up the pace a bit. Pacing needs to be decided and stuck with, but also make sure that your audience won't lose interest half way through the book if it's too slow, or also if it's too fast and not detailed enough to make us care.
     
    Millyme11, jannert and Jupie like this.
  8. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,889
    Location:
    Scotland
    The thing that worked for me, in Tolkien, is that he started so well. We can all relate to a birthday party. And a domestic setting, in a village. Okay, you've got a wizard and a magic ring thrown into the mix, but within that setting, which is evoked very well, we can settle in and 'be' there. He manages to do this throughout most of the story, evoking details of countryside, mountains, swamps, etc, which is why he's more enjoyable to read than some other 'high' fantasy authors. Tolkien knows how to tell a story. Start small and work up.

    I was actually annoyed by the LOTR movies, in that they began with that pretentious infodumpy prologue. Of course those of us who had read LOTR knew what that was all about, so we hung in there. But all those battles, high elves, sonorous speeches, etc. If Tolkien had started his book with all that backstory, it might well not have caught on. It's interesting that's not what he did. Tolkien began his story with a birthday party in a recognisably pastoral setting ...an eleventy-first birthday party. Okay, that grabs your attention. But the rest of that opener is quite devoid of high fantasy tropes. Even Gandalf is just an old man with a twinkle in his eye, beloved of children, who does fantastic fireworks. Gandalf's real powers are revealed later on, when we're ready for them—as is the underpinning of the story. We learn what's at stake when Frodo does.

    Okay, Tolkien could have used an editor, who might have removed a lot of that schmaltzy elven poetry (shimmering, glimmering, etc) and one or two other diversions. (I rather enjoyed the Tom Bombadil section, but felt it could have been removed from the story without harm. I also think the moviemaker was right to remove the Scouring of the Shire ...but it worked in the book.) But in general, Tolkien was a master storyteller. Read a couple of his shorter pieces (Farmer Giles of Ham, etc) to get a flavour of his ability. And he wrote these stories to entertain his children, so he did write for an audience.

    The Silmarillion was NOT a story, but extensive notes for LOTR, and maybe other stories Tolkien had in mind. The Silmarillion was world-building, not storytelling. Unfortunately he worked slowly and didn't live long enough to write any other major story. But LOTR is a legacy worthy of anybody, really.
     
  9. Dr.Meow

    Dr.Meow Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    429
    Location:
    Conspiring in my Spaceship
    I agree with all that, and yes, there were plenty of sections in LotR that could have been removed. Especially the Return of the King...half the book was Sam and Frodo crawling through Mordor, literally. I have heard that he was really comparing it to the trenches in WWI though, and that kinda makes sense. Still, that book could have been reduced a lot I think. As far as the movies, the only thing I liked about them was seeing the characters and the world in visuals...but everything about them was awful. I had hopes for The Hobbit being better, but after seeing part one, I didn't go back to see the second. The Hobbit was actually my favorite book Tolkien did, I really enjoyed it, and it seemed he'd learned a bit, albeit only a little, about not being quite so wordy with his story.

    He did an excellent job overall, and his style is greatly envied, but I'm afraid we all can't be Tolkien. The start for my novel is about the MC as a lost and homeless boy, and he's found by his future mentor who takes pity on him and tries to help him find his family again. Along the way though it becomes clear that isn't possible, and even if it was, the kid would just be homeless again because his parents were. So after searching, the man decides to take him in and raise him instead, and there's a long character arc leading up to this to make it believable at least. Best I could come up with so far. It's no birthday party, but it starts slow like you said and builds the world as the reader learns about things along with the MC. I think it's more about starting at the beginning when the characters journey becomes interesting, relatable and important to the story.
     
  10. Jupie

    Jupie Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    292
    I must admit I really enjoyed the Lord of the Rings movies. I enjoyed the books, but I would not class them as favourites because the style limits the characters in a way that stops them from becoming fully dimensional, at least that's how I read it. He is brilliant at world-building and also describing the natural world around them, and I love his ideas and concepts too, but I could never fully see his characters as anything outside of the narrative he's created. What I mean is, I could tell they were fictional characters and as such hard to imagine as lifelike, though that isn't to say I didn't care for them. It's just they sometimes were a little wooden or designed for a specific purpose. Gandalf for instance has buckets of personality, but I always felt the characters were somehow secondary to the overall plot. But I'm sure many will disagree.

    The movies worked for me because it had a sensational soundtrack, the scenery and cinematography was beautiful, and the actors all did a splendid job of bringing the characters to the big screen and emotionally portraying them very well. I know some book fans feel they are just action movies, but I feel that's unfair, because there's a big sense of adventure throughout (especially the first) and plenty of drama and emotion throughout. There are flaws, but I watched them when I was just a boy and I was so drawn. It really changed cinema for me. Also, I read the books AFTER I watched the films, so maybe that changed the dynamics somewhat. The books are classics and rightly so, but I enjoyed them more in a detached way and for admiring the author's hold on language and his ambition. He is a great storyteller, but still there was something missing for me, which is why they can never be in my favourites.

    Also, just responding to Jannert above, but I think your example of what to focus on as a writer is really good. It'll definitely be to do with the relationship between the boys and the sudden change from living in a privileged world (though one isn't privileged really) and into a wild and dangerous environment. There may be a little focus on the survival aspects but mostly not. It is just a short time so I suppose they get lucky. Too long and they would be quite vulnerable I think.
     
    Simpson17866 and Millyme11 like this.
  11. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,889
    Location:
    Scotland
    I think it's important to start with something the reader will recognise and relate to. A lost and homeless boy is certainly a way to draw your reader in, as long as you make his character believable, his situation upsetting, and his surroundings something we, as earth people, can relate to in some way. Even if it's a very different world, make sure you start with the small stuff. Maybe the moment his mentor finds him—either from the boy's POV or the mentor's. Probably best not to start with his lofty backstory—if he has one—but his immediate predicament. That should get folks on board.

    I didn't mean to imply that storytellers should start with a party! I meant storytellers should start with something the readers already know something about. We know about parties. We know about homeless boys. We don't necessarily know (or care) about how King Lofty the Magnificent killed his younger brother (Harry the Hapless) with a jigstab weapon made in the forges of Rangoroo on the back of a whangdoodle all covered in little opalescent globs of a siscaring's feces. It's important not to dump all the worldbuilding stuff on the reader at the start. Imagine picking up and trying to read The Silmarillion before knowing anything about LOTR. Yikes....
     
  12. Millyme11

    Millyme11 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    I think I have done this okay (okay for a first draft) in my first chapter. It begins with the MC visiting his mother and having tea with her. I wanted to introduce my MC in a relatable setting but also drop the start of the plot in there and drawing the reader in. The chapter shows how the MC is around someone that has known him all his life, but also shows that he doesn't visit regularly. This way they can have a 'catch up' conversation rather than info dumping.

    Do you think this sounds okay?

    I know it's going back to chapter 1 when we are discussing chapter 4. I just thought it quite fitted in with the way the conversation is currently.
     
    jannert and Jupie like this.
  13. Dr.Meow

    Dr.Meow Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    429
    Location:
    Conspiring in my Spaceship
    Well I was being generalistic, party as in something fun to draw attention versus something depressing like a starving child who lost his parents that never came back for him. We can still relate to it though, yes, and I'm rather happy with my beginning for the novel. Been writing a lot lately too, I finally got out of some block I was in and now that I've fixed it due to some help from the forum, it reads a lot better too. It is from the POV of the mentor, as right now the boy is not quite as interesting all on his own, and it's about the surprises he discovers about this child too, so that has more impact and discovery from the man's POV.

    Which actually brings back to the OP of this thread. The chapter I'm writing would actually be boring if I was just introducing the characters and nothing else, but the fact that I have a twist in it and a slight mystery involved, it really keeps the reader...well, reading. ;)

    I've actually never read the Silmarillion, not more than a few pages in the bookstore before deciding I really didn't like it much. So yeah, it's not a great start to any novel, but I still think it has its place for those that want more maybe.
     
    Millyme11 and jannert like this.
  14. Dr.Meow

    Dr.Meow Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    429
    Location:
    Conspiring in my Spaceship
    It can turn into "info dumping" rather easily though. Even if it's them talking in a discussion, it can still "tell" too much all at once. You don't need your main plot laid out from the beginning. This is a pet-peeve I have against a lot of modern movies, for example. They don't develop the characters enough before dumping us into the plot, then now it's a roller coaster ride through one action scene to another. Movies used to start out with nice long character development, so we had a chance to get to know them. Now it's to the point where I don't watch new movies because I do not care about the MCs... Just my opinion though, I also realize that peoples attention spans have greatly shortened as well...
     
    Millyme11 and jannert like this.
  15. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,889
    Location:
    Scotland
    Sounds like it has potential, as long as you're careful not to let it become an infodump, as @Dr.Meow warns.

    Use this opportunity to give the reader a notion of what your MC is like, what his relationship to his mother is like, and maybe a hint of why he doesn't visit very often.

    And also give us lots of his inner reaction to the 'news' he's hearing from his mother, if he's the POV character. That's what will stick. The news they're sharing is unlikely to impact on us, the readers, by itself, because we're not invested in the story yet, so make sure we understand how it impacts on HIM. Give us his thoughts, feelings AND words ...not just his words. And beware of too many trivial exchanges during the scene. Make the words count.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
    Millyme11 and Dr.Meow like this.
  16. Millyme11

    Millyme11 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    Thank you. I will be going over all of my chapters properly once I have fully written my first draft. My main issue at the moment is just getting through the first draft. I want to first get it all written down, and then make it into something worth reading. I was struggling in chapter 4 because I couldn't finish it and felt a block setting in, that's why I turned to the forum for help. I knew that I didn't want this block setting in so I needed help quickly. Fortunately due to all of the support and advice on here I am now back on track, so far.

    However, I think that my first chapter is far too short, for a first chapter. It's only two pages long. I know I'm going to come back to it and edit it, but i still worry. My other chapters so far are roughly four pages each or a little longer. Any tips for what is essential for a first chapter?
     
  17. Jupie

    Jupie Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    292
    It's really your call on how long a chapter should be. My first is 2,000 words long, shorter than my others. James Patterson writes exceptionally short chapters, like flash fiction. Sometimes the opening chapter is quite short. If it doesn't feel abrupt then it's fine. Ideally what you want is something gripping and with enough draw to bring you back. Chapters can be as short as 1,000 words or 8,000 long. My longest is around 6,000
     
    Rosacrvx and Millyme11 like this.
  18. Millyme11

    Millyme11 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    Hey everyone, I've stuck to it and finally finished Chapter 4!

    It only took me until 11:20pm, but I did it.

    Next stop, Chapter 5 :)
     
    big soft moose and Dr.Meow like this.
  19. Dr.Meow

    Dr.Meow Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    429
    Location:
    Conspiring in my Spaceship
    That's awesome, congrats!
     
    Millyme11 likes this.
  20. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,569
    Likes Received:
    25,885
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    Yay congrats on sticking with it ... do you have anyone alpha reading for you ? ( I've found my alpha reader to be an invaluable aid to productivity , both in having a sounding board to bounce stuff off, and in making sure i'm not going off on wild tangents)
     
    Millyme11 likes this.
  21. Millyme11

    Millyme11 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    I don't have one as of yet, but I definitely think that I need to edit it all before it is read by anyone :D

    But when that time comes, I'll be looking on here for beta readers. (But not posting it online as I'd like to publish it, if I can.)
     
  22. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,569
    Likes Received:
    25,885
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    let me know if you'd like me to look at anything .... btw i find its better to have an alpha reader look at the first draft and make suggestions before I edit... the beta readers come later when the first draft is finished
     
    Millyme11 likes this.
  23. Millyme11

    Millyme11 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    If that's the case then when I've finally finished my first draft, if you're still interested in giving it a read and making some suggestions then I'll let you know when it's complete :)
     
  24. Rosacrvx

    Rosacrvx Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    698
    Likes Received:
    427
    Location:
    Lisbon, Portugal
    Hey, no, I loved it!


    Hey, no, I hated it! I hated that first chapter so much I only kept on reading because a friend convinced me to.
    To this day, I'm convinced there had to be a thousand ways to start that story other than that!

    Just goes to show, doesn't it? No one pleases all.


    @Millyme11
    From my experience, some of the parts of my writing I have found most boring on a first draft are the ones I ended up writing better in the end. Those were the parts that made me realise I had to think outside my box and look for new solutions: new beginnings, new perspectives, new approaches. Those were the parts that had me pushing my skills beyond my comfortable zone into something else, something better. The main purpose should be: How do I make it interesting? Then make it interesting.
     
    Millyme11 and jannert like this.
  25. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,889
    Location:
    Scotland
    Just curious, regarding the opening of LOTR. Had you seen the films before you read the books? I'm wondering, because I read the books about 40 years before I saw the films. When I opened the book, I was immediately drawn in. An eleventy-first birthday party!

    Of course I also knew Bilbo from The Hobbit, so it basically started from a place I could totally relate to. I had no idea where the story was going to go at that point. Hardly anybody in my circle of friends had read the book yet, and I didn't know anything about it, other than it was a sequel to The Hobbit.

    However, it might have seemed humdrum and slow, verging on silly, if you knew has seen the movies and knew about all the major events to come.

    It was funny, because my husband (who also read the books long before he saw the films) reacted the same way I did. He loved the opening chapter. The difference was, he hadn't read The Hobbit yet. When he went back later and read The Hobbit, he was really disappointed!
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
    Millyme11 and Simpson17866 like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice