What Makes Someone "Overpowered"?

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by dragonflare137, Jun 6, 2017.

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  1. Myrrdoch

    Myrrdoch Active Member

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    Perfect example of one way to deal with power. And it provides interesting storytelling opportunities. One of the best Superman stories ever written is Lex Luthor: Man of Steel, a 5 issue series exploring their whole conflict from Luthor's perspective.

    I SEE WHAT YOU DID

    Perfect example of power creep. One way to see it properly addressed is in the currently-running anime/manga My Hero Academia (Boku No Hero Academia). It addresses power creep (a VERY common problem in shonen stories) very early on by simply pointing out that most of the characters are still growing into their powers, so of course they'll get stronger as the series progresses.

    It's just that explorations of those themes don't typically sell well. Marvel ran Damage Control for a while, for example.


    There have been a lot of great ways to address overpowered characters in this thread, but I feel like one has been ignored. This may sound crazy, but hang on with me for a second.



    Embrace them.

    That's right. Sometimes, overpowered characters are exactly what you need. Not as an MC, but they can make one hell of a splash when they land, if they only hang around for a little while. They can also be used as a measuring stick to articulate scale. A sort of "here is where my characters are, and look at this guy. Holy carp." An example of someone who deals with ridiculous power levels and makes it fun, awesome, and believable all at the same time is Steven Erikson. I've mentioned him in other threads, but man, he does a great job having characters ranging from fifteen-year-old boys to Elder Gods interacting.
     
  2. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    So, I kind of address this in the development stage. If I see a character getting too much power in the narrative, and especially if I want them to continue having that much power, I'll saddle them with something else that gets in their way. And that's not just in Fanstasy - I have one character in my Near Future who has a Sherlock Holmes type brain, extremely high social competence, and extremely good looks - she can read and manipulate any social situation she walks into. I realized that could get out of hand, so I responded by giving her a severe case of Adult ADHD in addition to all of of the anxiety she already had surrounding her family. So, that left me with someone who can control her situation but has a lot of issues controlling herself. I still have a very powerful character, but a powerful character with real obstacles, struggles, and failures. You don't always have to shave off power, just find something else that can complicate things.
     
  3. Dr.Meow

    Dr.Meow Contributor Contributor

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    And that's fine for you to do, by all means. I certainly can't speak for everyone, but I know personally I'm not about to touch it with a hundred foot pole, I'll keep that as far away as I can get it, not worth the risk of ruining a perfectly good series. You're missing the whole point though, kinda...why did they bring out Darkseid in the first place? Because the threat wasn't great enough after a while - this isn't the first time DC fucked up either...as stated before, they killed Superman, then brought him back to life. I don't think the writers deserve the respect you're trying to give them. They tried to resurrect an obviously failing franchise, and while they have brought it back recently from the interest in the movies and maybe some more revamped ideas, I still think it eventually has to end.

    The sales are up for comics, and they have the money to drop on trying out new strategies to prolong the inevitable, but I wouldn't consider these to be the most genius story writers... They're riding off the back of characters and universe that was created a very long time ago. I have to hand it to them that they've kept it going, but I'm not sure if that's so much their novelty or their writers. That's clearly up to debate...
     
  4. Phil Mitchell

    Phil Mitchell Banned Contributor

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    Well it's not like the bandit chief would just show up, shout a challenge to the main characters then get his head caved in. The End.

    The premise is simple. Any society that effectively developed the means to overthrow the creator of the universe, would have to have some very powerful tools. What if bandits, being part of the same society, gained access to those means as well? Bandits being chaotic lawless nihilists who hate the king for ruling far too long.
     
  5. Dr.Meow

    Dr.Meow Contributor Contributor

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    There might be a good story there actually. IMO it would be best to start after the fall of the creator, and then it comes down to what these tools are and how they work. If, for example, they've all been split up, then individually they aren't as powerful by themselves, then it creates an interest if someone is going around collecting them and making themselves stronger. I still think it has a finite ending, but maybe with a much longer life than some other overpowered characters.

    This is an example of an interesting way to take an overpowered element and turn it into something that can be brought down to earth and made into a threat we can all get behind.
     
  6. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    My main interest in fiction is character interaction. For me, a character is overpowered if they are more powerful than the vast majority of the sentient population that they interact with. Or to put it another way, if the majority of that population cannot be a threat to them, they are overpowered.

    A toddler with a paring knife could hurt me. So I'm not overpowered. A highly trained human soldier couldn't hurt Superman. So Superman is overpowered. The fact that various super-villains could hurt Superman doesn't change that fact, because Superman doesn't live in a society of billions of super-villains; he lives in a society of billions of humans.

    Now, there are different ways of "hurt", and some of the non-obvious ways can be used to reduce the negative impact of an overpowered character. As Clark Kent, Superman is vulnerable to his boss, to Lois Lane, to all sorts of things. That whole secret identity thing makes the overpowered character vulnerable. Buffy was socially and emotionally vulnerable, and also had all sorts of vulnerable friends and family. Confused and naive characters, like Wonder Woman in the new Wonder Woman movie, also have a vulnerability, but the problem with that is that it wears off.

    So, IMO, if a character has absolutely nothing to fear from their societal equivalent of a paring-knife-wielding toddler or a yapping little dog, they should be regarded as overpowered, and the author should put some effort into solving that issue.
     
  7. Kingtype

    Kingtype Banned Contributor

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    Okay, we've got some comic book ground to go over here.

    One:
    The main two superhero universe...Marvel and DC are relatively static for the most part. These are worlds that are never gooing to end and status quo is almost always like to return. You don't read Marvel and DC - mainline universes if you're worried about change, repeating things, and so on. Yes, there are very big exceptions and still, hundreds of great stories have been told in these worlds but they aren't really subject to change all that much. This doesn't stand for all of comics obviously (not even close), but when you're dealing with the Marvel and DC main universe you're never gonna enjoy them if you can't put yourself in a very out there mindset.

    It truly is a neverending story, almost. I'm sure it will come to end eventually...comics will be around forever in some form but yeah DC and Marvel will probably crash someday. Marvel was actually bankrupt for awhile back in the day before the movie boom. Nonetheless, I'll stick up for the writers at Marvel and DC. Yeah, the universes were built by other people but they are still building and expanding. Both companies have nearly gone under multiple times due to writing direction. You need good writers in there.

    Heck, many writers who do or did work for them have been critical and audience darlings. I think that says something about the talent they can produce.

    It is just like with books....you got many writers all with varying degrees of quality and all with different strengths and weaknesses.


    Two: Superman is EXTREMELY powerful within the confines of the DC Earth. He's no doubt within the top five or six most powerful superheroes on the planet. I can name several heroes and villains who can match him, though in physical combat and hundreds who can outsmart him. A lot can hurt Superman, though physical beating, kryptonite, magic, red sun, and most IMPORTANTLY emotional conflicts and emotional impact of who he is and what he represents and the people in his life. I've found most people who don't like Superman have never read the best Superman stories.

    Yes, killing Superman was a marketing stunt, but the movies are hardly the reason he came back. Reign of Superman (his return) was written in the 90s - after Donner movies and before Superman Returns.

    Suggested reading of great Superman stories: Allstar Superman, American Alien, Red Son, Kingdom Come, John Byrne 1980s run starting with Man of Steel, Grant Morrison's Action Comics new 52 run and there are more but those are all solid.

    He has a lot that makes him interesting and many things can hurt him.

    You can do a lot to a character and with a character if you feel their power is too much.

    Three: Batman is not reality based human. Batman is a comic book based human. This is where willing suspension of disbelief comes in with DC and Marvel universes. Top athletic humans in DC and Marvel are superhuman to us. The Hellbat armor mentioned in the posts above is powerful but it has a pretty massive drawback. The longer he's in that armor it's killing him. He had the Justice League build it for him, and for some stupid reasons, it is powered is metabolism or something.

    He's only used the armor once and it kills him as he does. The fight against Darkseid was only a brief skirmish where Batman managed to land a few sucker punches and had to retreat soon after. Darkseid at his best easily surpasses every member of the JLA in raw power. He'd of killed Bruce. Also, Darkseid wasn't created because the threat wasn't great enough. Jack Kirby made Darkseid as a source of ultimate evil in 1970 long before Doomsday appeared. He was not a plot device to kill Superman. Jack Kirby was a huge fan of religion and myths and was known for creating his own mythologies in comics. In DC he created the New Gods.

    New Gods were him trying to tell his own mythic legend. Darkseid is a New God.

    Jack Kirby also co-created most of the original Marvel line up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
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  8. TheDankTank

    TheDankTank Member

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    The concept of being overpowered is dependent entirely upon the context of your story. Using mine as an example (spoiler alert for anybody who cares), a character that can take many arrows to the chest while simultaneously killing upwards of thirty trained rebel soldiers with nothing but a sword may seem to be "overpowered". However, this character is only the weakest of the servants of the main antagonist (for the first book, anyways), so in that context he would not seem overpowered at all. The reason these beings are so powerful is to reinforce the idea that there are some things that nothing can stand against, in this case, the will of the Watcher.
    Being overpowered is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as it serves to advance the narrative or enhances meaning in some way.
     
  9. Phil Mitchell

    Phil Mitchell Banned Contributor

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    My MC can never get so strong there's no longer any need for martial arts. Can't end up looking like a bar room brawler. That's the limit, no matter how much training gets done.
     
  10. he who writes

    he who writes New Member

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    I think a character being overpowered means that they have little to no flaws, and they are overwhelmingly stronger than all of their opponents... I think to avoid a character being overpowered you have to make it so they know the pain of loss. Also, for example if you watch anime or something, they could and would typically make each move a massive explosion, if you describe a power as having a grand outcome as that (even if all characters do that) I would think of that as overpowered.

    Ultimately, I believe it is soley based on comparisons of anything. Of course a gun that shoots out a nuke v.s. a bullet would seem overpowered, or an human fighting an ant.

    If you wanted to avoid having an overpowered character you would probably make them an average fighter or slightly above average, if you plan on every fight being won, think about the end result of each fighter. (If a character is unscathed, they will seem more powerful... However if they are near the brink of death and win, the reader wont think "Man he's so powerful, the outcome was so obvious!"
     
  11. krishin316

    krishin316 New Member

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    I like having my main characters get stronger as time goes on. It's only natural for someone to get better at doing something constantly. But , if they are so strong that they walk over every single villain, then that is a problem. As someone said here, it will become boring. I usually setup a crazy strong villain upfront and then have the characters become strong enough to fight him.

    Having a villain that scales in power as the heroes do is important, especially in a conflict/fighting type of writing. I do prefer having that villain stronger than the MCs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  12. Scotty455

    Scotty455 Member

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    As you suggest, power is relative. In a story about a moving train about fall off the rails, Superman's powers are appropriate for the given story. In a story about a underground boxing ring, Superman's powers are inappropriate for the story. He would win every single fight. It would get boring, fast.

    One trick is to make your characters powerful (or competent at a certain task), but place them in a story where they are not able to use their strengths to solve the overarching problem. This is basically a fish out of water story. Some of the most interesting plot lines in superhero comics are when the hero aren't using their powers. They might have super strength and the ability to fire lasers out of their eyes, but that's not going to help their best friend overcome depression. They have to adapt. We like to see them grow.

    Another trick is to check how often your character fails. As a rule of thumb, your character should fail several times before they succeed. They've got to earn the happy ending. If you find your character able to quickly solve the problem, then there is no story. They're overpowered if they don't struggle to succeed.

    So it's not about being overpowered, it's about relative power. Keep in mind your character and make sure the story is appropriate.

    Hope this helps :)
     
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  13. Phil Mitchell

    Phil Mitchell Banned Contributor

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    My MC
    Is a master of every known weapon and knows every martial art.
    Can break the sound barrier with punches and kicks.
    Can solo whole armies.
    Can level cities.
    Can survive atomic blasts.
    Survived being piledrived through the Earth's crust.
    Is a master of stealth and sleight of hand.
    Has a genius intellect.
    Memorized an entire book in 4 seconds.
    Dodged a lightspeed attack from close range.
    Is from the second wealthiest family on the planet.

    OP?

    :p
     
  14. PilotMobius

    PilotMobius Active Member

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    It does not matter how powerful a character is because that's not what people read for. What matters is making your character interesting and relatable so people will want to continue reading.

    One Punch Man is the perfect example of this.
     
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  15. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Okay, I read nearly all the way through this thread, wondering what the heck was going on. It finally dawned on me. You're using the word 'overpowered' as an adjective to describe a character who has too many powers, or his/her powers are too strong?

    I looked up the meaning of 'overpowered,' and I'm not seeing that particular meaning in any dictionary. 'Overpowered,' used as an adjective, means a person has been defeated or subdued by a superior power. What am I missing here? I kept reading the thread as if you were searching for what would make an invincible character vulnerable. What would 'overpower' the character and render him useless. I couldn't figure out why you were describing Superman as being overpowered. He was only temporarily overpowered, by things like kryptonite, or people like Lex Luthor.

    Am I getting too old for this caper?
     
  16. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Yep. You could rephrase it as "excessively powerful."

    I'd guess that you just don't play roleplaying games or video games, much. While the concept of an excessively powerful character could come up anywhere, I think that the word "overpowered", used for that concept, is likely to come from some sort of gaming context.
     
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  17. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Thanks for that explanation. You're right. I don't play computer games—well, except for Solitaire, Mahjongg and the occasional frisky encounter with Lemmings. I AM too old for this caper... :)
     
  18. Mikaelo Fenner

    Mikaelo Fenner New Member

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    This has probably been resolved already and my two cents don't matter much, but overpowered is relative to the obstacles the hero faces.

    A flea could be far more overpowered than a universe crushing celestial giant depending on the nature of the conflict. If the flea only has to jump a millimeter to reach his goal, he's overpowered. If the celestial universe crushing giant has significant difficulty reaching his goal, he isn't overpowered. Perhaps the nature of the universe destroyer's conflict is that there is no one stronger, and that he has to deal with "it's lonely at the top."

    If the nature of the obstacle changes so that the hero has difficulty getting past it, the character is no longer overpowered. It's how characters like Superman or Saitama work. Superman comes into conflict often due to Kryptonite. Saitama's conflict isn't even really in the fighting in the first place (Though fights have plenty of conflict when it comes to the other characters).

    The best way to avoid overpowered characters is to make your character however you want, then find the worst possible situation to put him in. Or, you make your story first, then create a character who is the worst possible fit for the story. They need positive traits to succeed of course, but if they have a flaw which deliberately undermines them achieving their goal, you're doing it right.
     
  19. KT Higgins

    KT Higgins New Member

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    I would say overpowered can mean multiple things.
    1. Is the capability to continuously break the rules of the universe without explanation besides, "No, she/he/they can just do that." etc (See: Kirito From SAO)
    2. Always gains inexplicable power and capability at the perfect moment, (See: Most anime)
    3. Continuously and always has the upper hand regardless of what occurs in the story, no matter whom they are fighting against.
    Really,
    Sums it up (Not because in that story, depending on how you look at it, the forces that bring on the fall of man could be viewed as 'over powered') but because your suspension of disbelief doesn't cave when you're told that even God couldn't stop the fall of man. By that point, you can completely believe that. And that's it; overpowered is when you destroy the 'illusion' of different levels of power for the audience.
     
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  20. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    I'm not calling you out or anything, but I think three people have quoted my message.

    I just want to point out that I'm not talking about 'The Bible.' I'm talking about the book 'Paradise Lost' which tells the story of the Fall of Man but portrays Satan as the Hero (Tragic Hero) of the story, and God as the villain.

    I just want to make this clear as some people jumped straight to 'Bible,' not realizing I was talking about a book.
     

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