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  1. RWK

    RWK Member

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    Modern-day bullying

    Discussion in 'Research' started by RWK, Jun 23, 2017.

    So I've got a project going on the side, and at one point the MC is dealing with a kid in his office who is being bullied and is at the end of his tether.

    I've had classes on bullying from the investigative standpoint, but our school resource officers deal with that (Ironically, they work for me) so I have no experience with the human side of it.

    When I went through school many many years ago there wasn't any such concept; if someone picked on you, you either beat them up or you mocked them back or you just ignored them. The School didn't get involved unless it disrupted class, and then they just broke out the paddle and handed out spats.

    So what exactly is bullying from a user level? I remember kids getting ragged on in school, I recall them getting stuffed into lockers and trash cans, but it didn't appear to be that big of a deal.

    What would this kid be telling to the MC?
     
  2. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Well in Jr. High 7-8th grades (13-14 yr olds). I got stalked by a group
    constantly and harassed on a daily basis. And near the end of it, one of
    them started leaving pictures supposedly of me fucking goats. Long
    story short I said something I shouldn't have to get them to back off,
    and got suspended 10 days. They however in turn got called into the
    principals office when she got back from vacation, and had them tell
    their parents what they were doing.

    On another occasion not related, I got knocked down, and had my face
    slashed with a pen multiple times. (one of those Gelly Roller pens).

    So from my perspective is it is gang mentality, as you are less likely
    to want to attack 5-6 people all at once.
     
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  3. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    There's a thread going on about this right now. It started on this thread:

    https://www.writingforums.org/threads/i-enjoy-writing-but-not-reading.152104/page-2

    And then so as to stop hijacking, was moved to this thread:

    https://www.writingforums.org/threads/life-skills-youth-and-being-bullied.152774/

    While participating in the thread, I did some Googling and came across this article:

    http://www.aaets.org/article204.htm

    Bullying is indeed a big deal. Anything that drives suicide is, IMO, a big deal.
     
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  4. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Chances are the kid wouldn't be telling an adult anything ... kid experience suggests that telling teachers (etc) makes it worse, as they tend to institute laughibly ineffective measure like sitting the bullies down and explaining why bullying is bad

    I was bullied at school and telling the teachers was my worse mistake .... after they sent me out of the room and explained to the whole class that it wasn't nice to pick on me, the problem exploded from just a few to practically everyone because it had marked me out as both different and a squealer. After that I instituted my own policy of striking back whenever I caught the bullies alone and/or responding with no holds barred violence if attacked .... it was pretty successful, except that I went from being called stinky pete and hardly having any friends because "pete stinks of piss because he never washes" to being called "psycho pete" and having hardly any friends because of a propensity for unreasonable violence.... this mainly came about because of the time I stabbed the main bully in the neck with a bic biro and put him in hospital.

    On the plus side I didn't get battered to fuck anymore , and eventually I developed a bad boy persona which was pretty effective with a certain sort of girl (unfortunately the bad boy thing also led to my getting suspended for 4 weeks for threatening someone with a hammer during tech, and another two for building a still, making moonshine, and trying to market it round school in old sherry bottles labeled as "party spirit" ... I digress)
     
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  5. RWK

    RWK Member

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    Interesting. The goat pics were inspired! ;)

    Glad you stood up and did what you had to do.
     
  6. RWK

    RWK Member

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    I can't access the second thread. Perhaps I don't have sufficient account clearance.


    Suicide is a choice. Not a smart or good one, mind you. But what I am looking for is the logistics of being a victim for a story.
     
  7. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Uh...

    The idea of someone responsible for aspects of a school, and for supervising people who deal with bullying issues, being that offhand about suicide, leaves me breathless.
     
  8. RWK

    RWK Member

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    Amazing tale!

    When I first went to high school I got harassed by this much bigger upperclassman, so I moved to the front row. Naturally, he followed me. Then I sucker-punched him in the face when the teacher's back was turned. We both got sent to the principle for fighting in class and got three spats apiece. Thereafter anytime he ragged on me I would pop him when a teacher was close enough to keep him from pounding me into mush.

    He got sick of getting spats without getting enough time to really whip my butt, so he just left me alone.

    Sometimes you just have take a few lumps to get things done. It was a valuable lesson in life.
     
  9. RWK

    RWK Member

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    Bullying is a school issue, not a police issue. SROs are there to deal with violence & theft.

    Suicide isn't a crime.

    Every first responder is offhand about suicide. After you've seen your first dozen its just another day at the job.
     
  10. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I thought that you said that the SROs dealt with bullying. Does this mean that nobody really deals with bullying?
     
  11. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Anyway--it's true that reporting bullying is wildly unlikely. I think that your victim is going to have to have some substantial goal, like begging for approval to a transfer to another school, or doing something related to shifting to homeschooling, or trying to prove that he's advanced enough to spend the afternoon in independent study, or something of the sort. Or he's asking for a transfer from one classroom to another and breaks down. The kid just going in to complain about bullying is very unlikely.
     
  12. RWK

    RWK Member

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    They hear about it, but it's the school's problem. But with 'no kid left behind' and no corporal punishment, I doubt they actually do anything about it. If they do I haven't heard about it.
     
  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    from a story perspective I'd say bullying would divide into

    Physical - violence, having stuff taken, books defaced, clothes slashed , soaked in water etc ( I suffered most of these until i worked out that the best response was to damage the bully as badly as possible regardless of the damage you took yourself)

    Verbal/mental - name calling, threats, ostracism, isolation, rumours and so forth (again i suffered most of these, until again i got a reputation for responding with a punch in the teeth)

    Cyber - same as above but on line, also including photoshopped pictures, video, fake accounts, hacking and so forth ... i never suffered this because social media wasn't a thing in my day, but in some ways its the worst because i means that home is no longer a safe space

    your victim could be suffering any or all of these
     
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  14. RWK

    RWK Member

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    Now we're cooking! The transfer thing will work. The entire scene is just to serve to highlight the MC's motivations and outlook.

    I still need some dialogue from the kid on why he's taking the treatment. Most of what I am finding is stuff like Moose or Troll: guys who overcame the odds to solve the problem, albeit at a personal cost.

    That's not going to work in this case. I need the viewpoint of a kid who's cutting and running, or at least trying to. The outlook of a kid with no hopes, who is just beat down and desperate.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  15. RWK

    RWK Member

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    Verbal/mental is what I would need, I think. If it was physical it could be a criminal issue and the MC couldn't dismiss it with a shrug. Cyber, maybe, but this forum is the closest I get to social media outside work so I am not sure that I could describe it correctly.

    The trouble is, I don't know what that looks and sounds like. I have always worked in an environment where ritual insults and vulgar language are part of the culture, so I'm behind the curve here. Domestic abuse, now, I have decades of experience, but this bully thing is recent and not an issue for us.
     
  16. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    google is your friend

    https://tylerclementi.org/bullying-stories/

    http://back2school.antibullyingpro.com/

    http://www.puresight.com/Real-Life-Stories/real-life-stories.html

    https://www.pacerteensagainstbullying.org/you-are-not-alone/real-teens-speak-out/

    https://www.noplace4hate.org/real-bullying-stories/

    btw I wouldnt describe those the want to leave the bullying behind as "snivellers" quite apart from asking for this thread to get derailed by a PC back lash and wind up locked, its also not fair ... personally I'd have loved to cut and run but it wasn't an option (as it isn't for a lot of kids)
     
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  17. RWK

    RWK Member

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    We're hardly on speaking terms, actually. ;)

    Thanks! Amazing the stuff people put on the Net.

    You're right, and I changed it. I wrote that while the scene is fresh in my mind. The MC had the situation thrust upon him by accident, and it inspires very negative emotions.
     
  18. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not clear on what you mean by this. Unless he's better at violence than the bullies, it doesn't seem to me that it's a choice.
     
  19. RWK

    RWK Member

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    You got three examples of how it is a choice. There's not really a 'better' at violence, there is simply the willingness to inflict what you need to inflict while accepting physical injury as part of the process. Bullies quit (a particular target) when the satisfaction of bullying someone is less than the physical pain they sustain by bullying. It is as simple as that.

    And to be clear, this is about me finding dialogue, not a debate about bullying in any particular.
     
  20. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I don't know that the Venn diagram for this would create an overlap between someone in the situation you describe and someone likely to be spending time in our forum from whom to get a narrative. A person in that situation would seem to be someone for whom some basic items in the hierarchy of needs are not being being currently met. Spending time in a venue such as ours is icing on a cake. The young person you describe has no metaphorical cake. I can raise my hand too as regards being the recipient of bullying (I was the gay kid in my 1980's high school) but I found a way out from under it. The person you describe sounds like someone who would be in a precarious situation at this point.
     
  21. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    The thing is that bullying isnt just about violence ... violence is easy enough to deal with, its the ostracism/isolation/persecution that leads to teen suicides generally... its not easy to respond to that kind of thing with a smack in the teeth (unless you are willing to be as out of control as I was which most kids arent)

    Anyway in dialogue terms I'd expect a kid who's been beaten down by bullying to be monosylabic and unresponsive - he isnt going to be the one raising it with the teacher/counsellor, better if they've called him in to talk about it after concern is raised by a third party.. then he can be resentful and expect them to not resolve the issue anyway

    If the adult asks why hes putting up with it/not standing up for himself the responses will be in the lines of dunno, there's no point is there, i knew this was pointless, you don't understand, ho can i when everyone hates me... etc
     
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  22. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    But...jail.

    Isn't jail a sufficient demotivator for the victim? Especially since you're talking about verbal/mental bullying, there would be essentially zero chance of claiming self defense. Edited to add: In the case of the victim taking the situation to violence, that is.
     
  23. RWK

    RWK Member

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    I'm not looking for personal experiences. But having seen the wildly creative types here I figured there would be someone who could wing it. I want it to sound plausible, is all.
     
  24. RWK

    RWK Member

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    I was responding to your comment about 'being better at violence than bullies'.

    Although frankly jail hasn't deterred many people IME; three million behind bars certainly testifies to that.:D

    Fighting in school isn't a crime in most states. At best it is a very minor misdemeanor.
     
  25. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    But if you're assuming that "taking it" is a choice, what is there other than violence? Where is the choice? My main goal here isn't to argue--I genuinely don't understand the meaning behind your question. How do they manage to not "take it", other than reacting with violence?

    (And do they actually know that the law essentially condones violence in schools? I didn't.)

    Also, it doesn't seem realistic that a school official would ask why kid didn't deal with the situation with violence, as if he WANTS the kid to do so. School violence is supposed to be frowned on, not advocated, by the administration. :)

    I think that you are seeing violence as a quicker and easier solution than many kids do.
     

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