1. Ettina

    Ettina Senior Member

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    Implications of a Porn Economy

    Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Ettina, Jun 27, 2017.

    My Dad and I started speculating about this question this morning.

    You know the porn trope of pretty much anyone being willing to accept sex in place of payment? What implications would that have for a society? What would you have to have in order to create a society like that? (I'm thinking reliable cheap birth control and STD prevention, at least.)
     
  2. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Do you mean the only form of payment? Meh. How long could a person keep that up for (pun intended)? At some point you need another form of exchange. You can't screw for everything. Maybe the women could in a logistic, biological sense but the men would get tired eventually. I doubt I'd be able to sell more than a handful of widgets a day (with reasonably spaced transactions--"Sorry, ladies, the store is closed. Homer needs to take a nap now.") before the currency lost its allure and practicality. And a vendor could pick and choose their customers and deny anyone else that didn't strike your fancy.

    The only way this would fly would if be in bartering no longer became practical. The problem with sex is it's an ephemeral means of exchange that can not be transferred between multiple parties.I suppose of sex was just an augment to the normal economy than the customers who were better at it would have a leg up (pun intended again) on others. The young and supple would put the old and ugly out of business immediately.

    It's a funny (or not) idea but I don't think it will hold up to much scrutiny. It might work as a gag. Not so much as a premise.
     
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  3. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    For a society to function in this manner - for the sake of a story-telling device - there would need to be (or develop) a paradigm in which all sex is equally desirable and gratifying in order to standardize it as a monetary system. Not only would all people have to be considered equally attractive and equally desirable as "form of payment", but complete bisexuality would have to be the norm. Men have to be able to transact with men, women with women, men with women, women with men. You also need to take into account current cultural norms and taboos regarding age. How does a 10 year-old pay for candy?

    ETA: And regardless of the desirability of the transaction, how does one amass wealth? How do I buy a house with sex? How do you keep the payment method something one wishes to engage in? What happens when you are in a committed relationship and "payment" can be had from your partner (willingly) at any time? You would run into a situation where you can basically "print your own money" (this metaphor is getting stretched thin)...

    The trope in question only seems to really function in its trope form as wish fulfillment for an individual not currently receiving sexual attention. There are significant barriers and limitations to something like this being a form of currency that functions in exchange for other goods and services. Even in the case of sex-workers, the sex itself is not currency. It's a service. That service is translated into fiat currency that the sex-worker can then engage in other transactions.
     
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  4. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Not necessarily, perhaps being amazingly good looking, or amazingly skilled in bed would be the equivalent of being rich :D
     
  5. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Okay. :) But there still has to be an agreed-upon standard that the payment can and will be accepted, aka fiat money.

    So, say someone who is dazzlingly desirable has the ability to "purchase" a stonking palace, okay, fine, but a plain Joe/Jane still needs to be able to buy a house and food and gas. How do they do so? There can't be a no answer for the money to be money. There can be a yes, and there can be an oh, helz yes, but there cannot be a no, if the person is willing and able to provide payment.
     
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  6. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Sure there can if being amazingly hot is being rich, being ugly as sin or extremely unskilled is the equivalent of being poor... if you are ugly and clumsy in the bedroom your buying options are much more limited as you can only 'afford' stuff from people who are desperate to sell because everyone else will say no

    (of course the whole thing reads like a short story from penthouse - but that aside )

    It's your standard barter economy - I want to swap my chicken for your bottle of water.... sorry dude I don't need a chicken, ammo or smokes only

    Apropos , did you watch Red dwarf at all ? I'm thinking of the episode where Rimmer goes to the holoship where its the height of bad manners to refuse an invitation to have sex..
     
  7. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I caught a few episodes of it early on. Never could get past the name Rimmer. :-D Kinda' Like Kirk Cameron's best buddy Boner in Growing Pains.... The irony is off the f***ing chart. :rofl:
     
  8. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    As a story-telling device, I think it could be made to work so long as the story puts up blinders to just how profoundly this would alter society. Just from your description above as regards barter, I quickly see how the "poor" (aka sexually undesirable) would quickly get marginalized out of existence. There's still an issue of supply and demand, an issue of age, etc. What happens when, as you mention, the barter doesn't pan out, even if the payer is attractive to the payee. It's not really barter because the sex is serving as a scrip and that scrip may or may not be wanted at a given moment and isn't equally valuable from one person to the next.

    Say I'm regular-looking but have food to offer and a very attractive hungry fellow would like to purchase my food. Excellent! "You may have one kilo of my food for one roll in the hay (I get to top)." Once the roll in the hay is over, it's gone. I cannot retain it and pass it forward into another transaction. It doesn't increase my physical pulchritude in any way. I'm out a kilo of food and all I have is the memory of Hotty McHotterson's back side as I gave him what-for.
     
  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I suppose you could argue that the experience with hottie mchotterson makes you better in bed, thus enabling you to be 'worth' more in your next transaction .... that's probably pushing it outside the constraints of a playboy short

    Mind you the lack of durability applies to a lot of other barter substances - if i give you an 8th of an oz of cannabis for your kilo of food, once you've smoked it and come down you'll have nothing to show .... come to that once I've eaten the food I won't have much to show either

    one option would be a sex based currency ... so instead of offering you a roll in the hay for your food (because i'm straight and i'm not that hungry) I give you a voucher redeemable for one night of mind blowing passion (het), then you can use that voucher to purchase some more food off a woman who can then come and redeem it with me .... essentially we've invented currency with sex in the place of banks gold reserves :D
     
  10. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    To the OP:

    Again, as a story-telling device, a concept doesn't need to be perfect.

    Long ago, in a different forum, someone brought up the idea of a legal system wherein all punishment was purely of the "eye for an eye" sort. Everyone quickly pounced on the member to poopoo the idea pointing out just how unworkable that would be in a modern, civilized society. They made it sound like she needed to come up with a legal system that was flawless, which is a laugh because every legal system currently in use is riddled with flaws, and from a story-telling standpoint, it would seem (at least to me) that the meat of her story would be found exactly in the flaws and problems.

    One of my WIP's contains a bit of setting decor that consists of the fact that citizens don't derive their "inalienable rights" from a de jour government, but instead from their economic connections with products, brands, etc. My MC is a farmer on a colony world. His set of "rights" are derived from protections guaranteed to him by the company he buys his farming equipment from, his feed from, his human consumables from, etc. In the real-real world that set-up is rife with problems, but in my story those problems are part and parcel with what's going on.
     
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  11. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I once tried to write a setting where the the official govt line was of a moneyless utopia... all you had to do was show your employment ID and you could take anything you wanted from a shop... that in turn vastly increased the demand for goods and thus also for the resources to make them thus vastly increasing employment since there was no restriction on how many employees a firm could employ since they had no need to pay them. Thus officially there was no unemployment.

    This had a distopian underbelly where those that were 'unemployed' - for reasons of societal undersiability or disability etc didnt exist, and without an employment ID had no way of getting food etc except through crime

    There was also the plot driving issue that resources were finite and under the vastly increased demand were running out .. with no price structure to limit their consumption this was inevetably pushing towards societal collapse.

    It was a good idea, but at the end of the day I was done in by the complicatedness of making a moneyless society function and I shelved it
     
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  12. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    How would I prove it, though? Some of the very best rolls in the hay I have ever had the pleasure to enjoy have been provided by unassuming fellows, and vice-versa. I've landed a few guys that left me breathless to look at, but were wah-wah in the sack.

    That would be a luxury item, something I could afford to purchase once my more basic needs are met.

    Yes, you do! You live another day! One may argue that sex is or is not necessary to a human being, but food is not an arguable concept. It has to be had or we die.

    Haha :-D And in no time flat we leave that "sex reserve" behind as a form of guaranty and just go back to the currency we know and use today. ;)

    ETA: Though, with that history of money in play, just imagine the imagery that would be printed on our money... :whistle:
     
  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Then for a follow up erotic short we have each Govt employ a number of studs and studdettes to form its centralized 'sex reserve' with whom beaerers of government currency can 'redeem' if they wish .... thus nationalising the private sex banks :D :D
     
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  14. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    In the case of my story, it's only backdrop, so not something I needed to sit down and create a whole working economy and government out of. The story picks up where the MC is in prison for a murder (which he did commit) so no amount of brand-affiliation was going to gloss over the issue. But it sets up part of his relationship with someone else who has significantly better brand-affiliation, someone who is quite well-to-do because of a university "citizenship" that grants him quite a bit of access to services that a simple farmer would never have had access to.
     
  15. Myrrdoch

    Myrrdoch Active Member

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    This thread is awesome. Sexconomics. Hell yeah. But, to be fair, the OP was saying "willing to accept sex in lieu of payment." This implies that there is still regular money, just that sex is more commonly used to settle debts as an alternative to actual payment. So yeah, birth control and STD prevention for sure, but I think the more profound shift would have to be a society-wide belief that sex wasn't some sacred, transcendental experience that was in some way the union of two souls. That it was really just two people getting sweaty.

    The really cool thing, to me, would be to look at the economic history of such a world. Would you even have corporations or any kind of long-distance transactions, or would people want to keep things small (haHA!) and local so that they could more readily accept alternative forms of payment? Would sex be the only form of pleasure-generation accepted as alternative payment, or would other things be accepted.

    "Ma'am, I'm afraid that this is my fifth delivery today, and I'm about blowjobbed out. But I couldn't help but notice that stack of Magic cards on your coffee table." Jared cocked an eyebrow speculatively as he whipped his deck out.
     
  16. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Completely agreed. I can think of few human paradigms more burdened with extraneous, piggy-backed connotations, usurpations, remonstrations, sanctions, moralizing and every other synonym one can think of that means "people controlling other people's business" than sex.
     
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  17. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    thing is how often would you (or anyone) be tempted to offer sex in lieu of cash.... thinking back on transactions in the last couple of weeks I can only think of one (hot chicken selling lady per TMW) .. most of the rest of the people i've met recently I think i'd rather pay

    Also how does it work in Tesco ... do you have a bunk up with the cute check out girl or do you have to go and do a shareholder ?
     
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  18. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Oh, sweet Cthulhu, could you imagine the queue? o_O
     
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  19. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    and how does the self service lane work ? :D
     
  20. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    And Moosie wins the thread. Thank you all for playing; better luck next time. :-D
     
  21. Fernando.C

    Fernando.C Contributor Contributor

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    rows after rows of Sybians and blow up dolls :D
     
  22. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    I mulled this thought around for a bit around 5months ago.
    Turns out it got overly complicated and time consuming
    as far as payment(s) were concerned.
    Though the reason I had considered this type of economics
    was shaped around a story sitting on the back burner
    in which 2 cities exist. One is normal, the other appears
    normal, but it is based on BDSM subculture instead.

    And then the whole economics thing got me thinking,
    The payment system set up in trading sex, got a bit
    convoluted.
    Think about it.
    You are in the grocery, and you have a few basic items.
    The person in front of you has a cart full of stuff.
    While you could get out the door by doing something
    pretty easy (if you have the skills) and be off on your
    way in 5-10 minutes.
    The person with the cart full, would take far longer
    to pay in comparison.
    This is why using sex instead of currency doesn't
    really work. As like in everyday life, 100-300$ worth
    of stuff needs to compensated much more, than say
    a loaf of bread, gallon milk, and a pack of smokes.
    So you can see when it comes to the payment problem,
    compared to a currency based economy. I would rather
    not get stuck in the line all day waiting on the other
    party to make their purch.
    Granted on a sex based economy there would be
    far to many variables to consider, as @Wreybies
    notes as far as attractiveness, skills, etc.
    Quite a sloppy affair to want to try and figure
    out how to decide what each person is allotted
    based on such parameters.
    Though it could work in private party sales, but
    on as a standard of currency on a societal level
    it does have its problems in the larger scale.
     
  23. UnderTheMoon

    UnderTheMoon Member

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    We've talked about attractiveness being equivalent to being well off in a sex-paid society - in that case can we not flip that to assume that those who are ugly and clumsy in bed may actually BE the rich in this society? Because sex is a mutually beneficial thing to both parties, so if both parties are attractive it's hardly a form of payment - payment is sacrifice whereas sex is usually pretty good. So, theoretically the rich would be those who are ugliest and clumsiest so those who are attractive and good in bed would view the sex with said ugly rich man as a sacrifice (i.e. payment) and not a reward?

    If I could pay for a book (a pleasure) by having sex with a gorgeous cashier (a pleasure) I wouldn't think of that as a payment, however if it took a romp with a smelly old man in a back alley to get the goods I may reconsider the book's worth (and by extension, my own).

    Also, how would monogamy work in said economy? Would those who choose to sleep with one person be poor outcasts or might there be other ways to pay?

    (just my two cents)
     
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  24. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    The two problems that struck me were scaleability and mutuality. @UnderTheMoon had some good comments above that relate to mutuality, but to put it more bluntly, let's say I greatly enjoy the work of, oh, Angelina Jolie. How many times, and how thoroughly, would I be allowed to pay her for the pleasure of watching one of her movies. I suspect there'd be a queue....

    As for the first part though, let's assume that sex with anyone is of equal value to sex with anyone else, and that the common acts are those that are primarily more directly pleasurable for one partner than the other (mostly talking about receiving manual and/or oral stimulation here. Yes, I know that giving either can be pleasurable, but bear with me). So, let's say that one mouthy is worth five handies. Or ten handies. Or whatever, the problem comes when you try to pay for something that's either really cheap, like a pack of gum, or really expensive, like a house (let's leave the Hope Diamond out of the discussion for now, okay?). A stick of gum might cost, what, fifty cents these days? Is a handy really worth that little? Let's say it is, and let's say a mouthy is worth ten times that, which makes a Big Mac, fries, and a large coke worth, I dunno, a mouthy and five handies? But then that means if you want to buy a house, you're busier than an attractive yet financially disadvantaged young third world person when the Sixth Fleet pulls into port. On the other hand(y), if a handy is worth, say, ten bucks, how do you pay for that pack of gum? With a single, long, slow stroke? Or just a quick grope?

    I think I saw a speculative film about this sort of economy the other day though, I'm going to head off and do some more research into how they solved the problems....
     
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  25. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    clearly you 'buy' twenty packs of gum and use the excess to barter for other low value items ;)

    incidentally the word is that Angelina is a bit.....weird... in the bedroom. So you might not want to pay her as thoroughly as you think.... word is she likes to cut her partners or her self or both... (must stop reading them magazines, please don't sue me Ms Jolie.. although if you do i'm happy to pay damages in 'kind' )
     
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