1. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    The apartment conundrum (another Boatie McBoat Question)

    Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Wreybies, Aug 22, 2017.

    I know what I want to do; the question is really how much this triggers your eyeroll subroutine.

    I know that only on the very biggest ships did captains have that spacious "uptown loft" you see in so many movies. I know this. I do. And still, I sorta' need two of them, not just the one. :pity: I need one for Lord Carl and his monster ego, and I also need one for Markus and Tevin. A lot of this has to do with the fact that I'm still not sure about Carl's position on the ship. I really want Tevin's dad to be the captain (Markus) and Lord Carl is just there because all this belongs to him. Most of you following my questions already know this is Science Fiction dressed as Fantasy, so I know there's always the answer of "It's not real, do what you want." I'm just looking for your threshold, I guess... maybe?


    [​IMG]
     
  2. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    It wouldn't bother me at all, but I'm also not critical of things like that unless they're non-fantasy or (especially) historical. Then I'll freak out, but this doesn't trigger eyeroll at all. :)
     
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  3. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    You're fine, I think. Anyone who's going to flip out about that would probably find a bunch of other shit to complain about regardless. That's the way I look at it... the tech-police will get their licks in no matter what you do.
     
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  4. Spencer1990

    Spencer1990 Contributor Contributor

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    For what it's worth, however unhelpful this is, as long as there's reason for having two lofts on a ship, I don't think it would bother me. Probably, I wouldn't think anything of it, especially if I'm engaged in the story.

    I want to add that I know literally nothing about ships except that they float and carry things. You could probably get away with a lot of nonsensical crap with me as a reader.
     
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  5. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    Here's one scene:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunroom

    trace back to 'cabin' and you pick up lots of information.
     
  6. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    It wouldn't bother me, but I was able to keep watching The 100...

    ...after they crashed a space station on the ground and had plenty of survivors...

    ...so I'm really not all that demanding on the reality front.

    But, really, unless having that big open space actually violates some law of floating-vessel physics, as opposed to just violating historical standards of ship architecture/priorities, I don't see an issue. If your fictional culture prioritizes big pretty spaces for rich people over cargo space, so be it.
     
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  7. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I think you're fine - on a big ship of the line* you could easily have a captains cabin for the flag captain and a stern cabin for the admiral, whilst if a ship was built to carry passengers it would have several cabins (* random point on a combat ship all the walls etc were removable so it could be 'cleared for action' - with all the furniture etc stowed below and the captain/admirals cabins becoming part of the gun deck)
     
  8. Robert Musil

    Robert Musil Comparativist Contributor

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    I'll play devil's advocate here. To me, the problem wouldn't be with the physical architecture, but with the idea of bringing the owner along on a voyage (it sounds like that's what your proposing, but I admit I haven't followed all your posts on this). It's just not economical, from a business perspective. I know sometimes owners would have an agent on board to keep an eye on things, but that person wouldn't rate a cabin as nice as the captain's.
     
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  9. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Ah.... this explains the opening scene of Master & Commander, as the camera heads from the captain's quarters into the rest of the ship, the walls are pulled away. I have to be honest and say that I always thought that was a theatrical element, not a functional one. Makes sense, tho, now that you explain it that way. :)
     
  10. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    It wasnt always true ... some captains installed "quaker cannon" - fake wooden mzuzles - in their quarters to have more space, the trouble being that this reduced the combat capability of the ship, not a massive problem if you were reducing a 74 gun ship of the line to 72 , but enough to be the margin between victory and defeat in a sea fight if you reduced a 14 gun sloop of war to a 12
     
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  11. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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  12. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    I did just what you described in my Roman ship in E&D. There was a deckhouse all the way aft, the quarterdeck above on the roof with the cybernetes (officer of the deck) handling the long steering oars. The aft half or third of the deckhouse was taken up by the master's cabin, occupied by the owner, or one of his party, or the shipping master in charge of the fleet of three. It was very much like your picture, including Egyptian glass windows that could be shuttered from outside in case of heavy weather. The door of the masters cabin led to a passageway to the outside exit from the deckhouse to the maindeck, and on either side of that passage was a cabin for the navarkos (captain), and navigators (shared), each with inside ladders leading topside to the quarterdeck. These had windows for light and ventilation, but no glass, just shutters. On one side of the passageway was a ladder leading to the second deck, and the officers' quarters, and a door through their wall led to the main second deck. The navarkos would use the master's cabin for himself if he was not carrying anyone senior. Occupants of all three cabins topside took their meals inside, the officers below deck ate at at a shared mess in the the officers' quarters, or ate with the crew around a fireproofed ceramic stove full forward on the second deck.

    Below the second deck were the cargo holds, water tanks (Romans used lead-lined tanks on big ships) and of course, the bilge. The ship was over 200 feet long, about the size of the USS Constitution, but beamier and with considerably simpler rigging, three single square-rigged sails, with the center mainsail topped by a triangular topsail.

    In fact the upstairs loft was driven by two things:
    1. The cybernetes needed as much height of eye as he could get, allowing him to see further and avoid ships coming his way. At 30 ft up, he could see 8 or so miles, 2 or 3 miles further than at 20 ft
    2. Without a keel, and sailing into the wind, rudder forces could be quite high, and he needed a long lever arm to steer the ship.

    So the deckhouse had to be there, and it makes sense to use it for the captain who wants to be within shouting distance of the quarterdeck, or for VIPs as below decks could be quite stinky and hot due to lots of people and no ventilation.
     
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  13. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    That's excellent information, Lew. Thank you. I feel a little better now as to what felt like an extravagance for this ship. As noted by @Robert Musil, no, perhaps not the most economically sound thing to have Lord Carl treat this flagship as something akin to a floating palace, but there certainly are reasons behind it having to do with his relationship with his sister who owns the shipyards in which the ship was built. So anyway, yes, thank you! :)
     
  14. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    GLad you liked it, @Wreybies! Anyway, my owner was riding his ship to China as ambassador, so it was a combination trading and diplomatic mission. Made quite a bit of money, too.

    They recently found a stash of 8000 Roman gold aurei coins (400 lbs) on the southern tip of India, worth about @2.8M, believed to be the trading cash from a shipwrecked vessel like one of mine, buried for later recovery and forgotten. The typical markup for goods bought in India was ten to twenty to one, taxed at 25%. That would have generated $7M for the Roman treasury, and about $18M profit! And that was just one ship!
     
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