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  1. mashers

    mashers Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Falling asleep

    Discussion in 'Character Development' started by mashers, Aug 23, 2017.

    I'm writing in close third, and am ending a scene with a POV character trying to fall asleep. Actually saying that he fell asleep would break the POV, as falling asleep isn't actually something you can be aware of (so saying that he was asleep would slip into omniscient). How can I show the reader that he has fallen asleep without stepping outside his POV? The only thing I've come up with so far is an unfinished thought, along the lines of, "he wondered about x, but didn't finish the thought," with the implication being that he didn't finish the thought because he fell asleep. I just don't know if that shows what I want it to.
     
  2. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    "His thoughts drifted to x, as his eyes closed." ??
     
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  3. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    He wondered about X as he drifted off?

    It's not an always thing, but I know I can sometimes feel myself teetering on the edge of sleep. You could try for that feeling.

    I think what you've got probably communicates that he's fallen asleep just fine in context.
     
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  4. mashers

    mashers Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I think maybe I'm being too literal about this - I did consider saying that he closed his eyes, but I didn't think it would get the point across. "Drifted off" is nice, as long as it is still within his POV (would he know it was happening?)

    I've never experienced being on the edge of sleep - I'm aware one moment that I'm not asleep, and aware the next that I have woken up. So I don't know how to describe that experience. I wish I had experienced it - it sounds lovely.

    I think perhaps a combination of two things could work - he wondered about x as he closed his eyes. He didn't finish the thought.
     
  5. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    I agree, except I don't think you need to say 'he didn't finish the thought' as I don't believe he would be aware of that.
     
  6. Lifeline

    Lifeline South. Supporter Contributor

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    This is not exactly what you're asking, but maybe it'll help you anyway. My MC is very tired, but trying to stay awake, and failing.

    I'd advice against using phrases like 'drifting off'. Try to think how it feels when you try to go to sleep. First your thoughts tear at a problem. Then they start to wander. Then they get unformed.

    And then nothing. You are asleep, and the next time your brain comes on is when your MC wakes up.
     
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  7. mashers

    mashers Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Oh, true. I didn't think of that. Thanks!

    Thank you. My character wants to fall asleep, but this example might be helpful for the future anyway :)


    I've got the first part - things are going round in his head and he's trying to settle his thoughts. I don't think I've ever experienced the latter phases personally. In my own perception, I'm either awake or I'm not. Or more accurately, in my perception, I'm awake. I don't perceive any wandering or disintegration of thought, or drifting off. My experience is literally that I'm aware that I'm awake at one point, then I become aware that I'm awake at another point. Perhaps this is abnormal ;)
     
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  8. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    You could go literal, with what he's thinking : I wonder if ...this ...but that might not be ...quite the same.... Then just let his worded thoughts trail off, a couple of times, separating them with an ellipsis, then ending with a final ellipsis plus period. (Four dots.) As long as the readers know he's in bed and it's time to go to sleep, and he's shut his eyes, they'll get what's happening. If he were to be walking down the street and this inner conversation took place, I suspect your readers would be a tad confused! So make the setting clear, and you can finish with a specific thought and put him to sleep without leaving his POV.
     
  9. Walking Dog

    Walking Dog Active Member

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    Write the experience of falling asleep in First Person first (that was a weird thing to say). Then substitute the name of your character for yourself:

    First Person:
    My body feels like a heavy sack of cement. I can hardly move. I just want to relax. As I close my eyes, I think of work. My coworkers and I are solving a problem. The building opens into a sunny pasture. A bird appears, struggling to fly, flapping its wings and flailing in the grass. My coworkers and I chase the bird, but it quickly grows in size and transforms into a dragon.


    Close Third:
    Dave's body feels like a heavy sack of cement. He can hardly move. Dave just wants to relax. As he closes his eyes, he thinks of work. He and his coworkers are solving a problem. The building opens into a sunny pasture. A bird appears, struggling to fly, flapping its wings and flailing in the grass. Dave and his coworkers chase the bird, but it quickly grows in size and transforms into a dragon.
     
  10. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    I think this is fine.
     
  11. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    You like it, eh?

    ...

    I think he/you writes nothing and lets the white space do the talking?

    Or

    He twisted and turned, thumped the pillow, the fourth sheep jumped the gate...

    [which is properly 'fine' because I do count sheep these days. People mock what is an effective solution.]

    The next scene begins with Marmite and toast, and the reader is properly immersed in the process, indeed has written a line or two for you. Think of all the pictures whirring round the readers' minds, vivid. They see things you don't - but you did it, it is almost a 'magic power.'
     
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  12. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    one ...twooo...threeeeee...f.....
     
  13. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    It's as 'fine' as Matwoolf last June in his mankini...
     
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  14. Night Herald

    Night Herald The Fool Contributor

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    If it fits the character/story/tone, you could perhaps go for something like "He spent a while in hypnagogia, knowing that sleep would soon come".
     
  15. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    If it were me, I'd pull back a bit, but I tend not to sweat the altar of POV when clarity becomes an issue. A little bit of omni can get you out of a lot of jams if you use it right. The reader won't care. Half of them couldn't find their own POV with both hands and a flashlight.

    If you really want to keep it real, the moments before sleep are usually jumbled with oblique thoughts and mini-dreams. A religious adherence to POV would have to account for that, so the sleep conundrum is one of the acceptable times to bend the rules a bit.
     
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  16. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    [​IMG] That June when @matwoolf saw @123456789 stood away on the promenade, it wasn't sheep he was counting, but visions of @12 skipping over stiles, his manuscript in his hand, then he fell asleep[​IMG]
     
  17. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    Dammit @matwoolf - I'm never going to be able to unsee that.
     
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  18. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Why can't you say he fell asleep? I think it has more to do with tense than POV. If you're in past tense, I thin you're fine. You can say something like Right before he fell asleep he thought..." Of course, this wouldn't work in first person and present tense the same way, but in third (even close third) and past tense, I think you are totally fine.
     
  19. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    I have a technique for falling asleep quickly which sometimes leaves me slightly conscious of going to sleep, and sometimes even aware of dreaming, though if I focus on them instead of just watch, they pop like soap bubbles.

    "He closed his eyes, concentrating on the dark reds and blacks swirling in the afterimage. He was aware of his heart slowing, a sensation of falling, falling, a flash of yellow flared, briefly became a face, then vanished, to be replaced by another, a feeling of crawling on the floor, heart slowing and then... "

    Feel free to use or reject as you see fit, it usually puts me out in minutes.
     
  20. mashers

    mashers Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer

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    @matwoolf
    I would love to spend 5 minutes inside your mind. Just to know what it’s like in there :D

    @Night Herald
    “Hypnogogia” is a bit purple for my style, but I learned a new word so thanks :)

    @Homer Potvin
    Hmm, that’s food for thought. I tend to be very strict with POV, but maybe in certain situations a touch of omniscience is justified. Saying that, some jumbling of thoughts could actually work here. I’ve already mentioned the thoughts he is trying to still while trying to sleep, and some jumbling could show their interrelatedness (some are metaphors for others). That could work well, though I don’t want to force the metaphor down the reader’s throat. I’ll play around with that idea and see how it goes.

    @deadrats
    I can’t say it because he doesn’t know it, and I’m being strict with POV. He doesn’t know that he fell asleep at the time that it happens, so I can’t say it if I’m strictly staying within his POV. The tense doesn’t really matter: “he closed his eyes, and fell asleep”, “he closes his eyes and falls asleep” and “he will close his eyes and fall asleep” all step outside the character’s POV for the same reason. Actually, I would suggest that first person is the only situation where this can be done while staying in POV. If I say “I closed my eyes and fell asleep,” this is still within my POV because I am reported what happened to me, and I know it from my own POV.
     
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  21. mashers

    mashers Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer

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    @Lew
    That’s interesting. Would you literally end it with the ellipses, to suggest a trailing off of the thoughts and images?
     
  22. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Assorted thoughts:

    - I agree that worrying about this may be a too-strict interpretation of the POV.
    - If the work is in past tense, then the character is going to be aware later that he fell asleep, so it's not even a POV violation in that case.
    - I'm totally aware of the process of falling asleep. I guess I'm technically not aware when I get all the way there, but I am definitely aware of the reduction of awareness of my surroundings, of sinking under and then floating back up again when there's a noise or other waking interruption. So as a progressive--"falling asleep"--it would be perfectly literally correct for me.
     
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  23. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Another thought: You could end the scene at waking instead of falling asleep.

    She stared at the ceiling. What to do? Blah de blah? Blah de blah and blah and blah thought blah?

    Then it was morning.
     
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  24. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    She stared at the ceiling. What to do? Blah de blah? Blah de blah and blah and blah thought blah? she thought, this autism really was a curse.

    Then it was morning.
     
  25. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    That's what I was saying. This is a tense issue (and because it's past tense there is no issue). It is not a POV issue.
     

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