I've never heard of a developmental editing course. Proofreading's different, but I know that isn't what you're talking about. I think, like writing a novel, it's something you can't learn in a classroom. You just have to read and write (or read and edit) and your skill grows... and even then, I think you need an innate talent. But I'm just making an educated guess. I'm not *that* kind of editor, as you know.
it sounds obvious, but seriously, never trust someone who neither reads nor writes your genre If they're offering themselves to edit your book, claiming to be qualified: run. If they say they can get you agents: run. If they try to "help" you by sending you some book proposal template when you're writing fiction: run. If they start giving you backhanded compliments that basically just mocks your writing: run. If there's no contract, no discussion, no written proof of what service is really being offered or what will be done: run. If they show no sign of even being aware there are different types of editing out there, and thus cannot offer you a more specific editing service other than "I shall edit it!": run. Honestly, I have no idea why that guy offered himself as an editor. I was green and had no idea what I was looking for or what I was doing. To his credit, he did read my book, so he wasn't a complete con. But I still consider him a con. Just one of those occasions when someone thinks "Anyone can do it because it's assumed that anyone can read." Last but not least, and it may sound obvious, but, if you don't know what you're looking for, what you might need, or what questions to ask: Save your money and the heartache of having spent that money, and don't bother.
This is honestly why I don't post in the workshop - I just don't think there's enough people on the forums who read/write my particular genre, which has some elements that are perfectly fine in that niche market that wouldn't be in others. I have enough individual folks I could reach out to who are very well versed in the genre that I can reach out to when I have beta/editing needs.
Yeah I don't really use the workshop myself generally. I do value feedback in general, but I prefer feedback from people whom I respect, whose writing and opinion I respect. The workshop though would be good for any practice or experiments however I tend to just work on my WIP, and then I am not sure about submitting snippets on a public forum and the obvious lack of continuity for the readers, making their feedback less accurate.
Thats probably true - although as I've said before your writing has the quality to stand up outside of its niche - I rarely if ever set out to read MM romance but UTK was certainly good enough to stand up as a mainstream book
Yeah. If you're new to this game, I'd say start with betas, and do what you can to address the issues they bring up. Maybe later on, once the story is at a more advanced state of 'finish,' then it might be an idea to pick a professional editor to give it whirl. But as you say, you need to have a clear idea of what you 'need' from them, as well as picking the editor as carefully as possible. The sad thing is, some new writers want to jump straight into publishing or querying as soon as they've finished a first draft and run the piece through the spell-checker. Of course they will be rejected at query level, and their piece won't sell as a self-published effort. I'd say time-wise, you will spend LOTS more time editing to perfection than you will writing the thing in the first place. That applies more to new writers than those with experience, of course. The experienced ones will have knocked their original writing mistakes on the head and will make fewer mistakes in subsequent works, so they can move to the pro-editing stage more quickly than those of us who still have our feet buried in the mud. But for those of us just starting out, don't be in too great a rush to hold your finished book in your hands. You do want to be proud of it, don't you? Not proud of the fact that you've written a book, but proud of the fact that you've written a good book. I hope....
Yeah. The workshop is just posted 'snippets.' This is fine if, as an author, you're questioning your writing style. But if you're writing a novel and need advice on story flow or character development, etc, a partial chapter isn't going to be enough. Novels develop these things over many chapters, or even over the entire course of the novel. Novelists need trusted betas, don't they? No matter what genre they are writing for. I've used the workshop on a few occasions to get feedback on a particular section of my novel, and the feedback I've received has been incredibly helpful. In one instance, in particular, it gave me the breakthrough that I needed in recognising a problem. But my main editing progress has been facilitated through betas, bless their little hides!
Concur with what @jannert said, work extensively with betas, especially those who have some familiarity with your genre. I had about 30 or 40 betas on mine, before I went to a professional editor, most working in parallel. Then I spent another six months editing it through three or four more revisions. I finished the first draft in October 2015, and didn't publish until February 2017, seven numbered revisions and innumerable typo/SPaG screens. Then I caught a couple of more typos after release! In picking an editor, get a recommendation from a published author, do not throw a dart at google search results for "editors". Also find one that will do a small sample of your work so you can judge their quality, before you spend the big bucks to have them do the whole package. Mine did the first 100 or so pages, then chapter synopses for the remainder, for $150, deductible from the full cost of the edit if I took it. By all means get a signed contract and deadline! It was a pain writing 75 chapter synopses for her, but that in itself was helpful, as I found one chapter in which "they got to the port city, the weather was awful, the accommodations terrible and nothing much happened." That chapter got a major rewrite! And @jannert, thanks for the haggis, scotch and hospitality last week! @K McIntyre and I really enjoyed meeting you and Jack! Need to post pictures!
Totally enjoyed meeting you guys, and hope we can get together again some time. I hope things are on track for Karen's book. Tell her I tried the Willow Balm the other day, and it seemed to do the trick!
You got to meet @jannert ? I wanna meet her too Maybe when Tingka's 3 or 4 and can sit still on a long journey... Flying with her is no fun right now
Yes, it was fun. Next time you come to the UK for an extended stay, let me know and I'll try to catch up with you. It might be easier for me to travel down to England on my own, rather than you trying to haul freight up here. I need to get out more anyway!
Well there are potential plans to relocate back to the UK altogether because I've got a bit paranoid over Brexit. Probably a conversation for Facebook You're also welcome to come over here to Prague!
I agree with what @Lew said about an editor and beta readers. He had many more beta readers than I did, but I found their help essential. @jannert - We had a great time with you guys! Give Jack a hug for me.
I'm just going to throw this out here and then quickly walk away before the explosion... There is no one way to approach the role of editors; this is because there is no one way someone becomes a writer. Even among writers, there are different goals. I do not write for money - I have a salaried job for that. I write because I love creating the story. I want my stories edited to put out the best book I can, even if it costs me money. And yet, I do not plan on paying for an editor. Why? As someone who studied literature in college, far above my own skills at editing (though those are considerable once I have stepped away from my work for a while), I have an even better resource: Professors who analyze and critique literary content (and teach others how to) for a living for a living that are willing to help me out. I also have a handful of friends who became English teachers to double-check my copy editing. Finally, I have more friends than I can count who want to read my novel and give feedback on what they thought about it for general reader feedback. So, my personal resources when it comes to editing were huge. Why would I pay when I could get great quality editing for free? I put that money into cover design. But, if I had to choose between one or the other, I would have paid for the editing. But there are people from all sorts of backgrounds that become writers. If few of your friends have experience in writing and editing, and you're self-publishing, I would say you certainly need to hire a great editor. Still, that's assuming your primary concern is the final product. If your final concern is profit and/or cost, then that might change.
At least you're brave enough to stand by your convictions in an anonymous, consequence-free discussion. I'm well aware that connections go much farther than brilliance and hard work.
Well I'll just say congrats to you, because I don't really personally know any writers in that situation. I've been told I'm a rare Pokemon myself on a few fronts, so I'm not going to dispute this particular argument.
I paid for an editor, and it was not cheap, partly because at this point I wanted a professional opinion on what I had written. I was at that time considering traditional publishing, and did not want to have built in reasons for rejection that I, as a neophyte, wouldn't recognize. Basically, all I knew then was that it was finished, but was it good or just rambling drivel? Looking back on it, I got just as good recommendations from my beta readers, and since then, I have found many resources, such as exchange readers of the Maryland Writers Association website, which my wife @K McIntyre used. She also is an English teacher, so between the two of us, we can be pretty brutal on SPaG, so that was never a problem other than finding them all. Would I do it again? I am well into a non-fiction (60K words, 220 pages) True Believers, the Founding Fathers of TACAMO, an anthology of autobiographies of ten or so people, including myself, who built that Naval aviation community from scratch, and the commanding officer who inspired us to do so forty years ago. Although I am intent of publishing, hopefully through the Naval Institute, I think I am confident enough to skip the editor, though I want some beta readers when it is finished. Also need a Department of Defense imprimatur for this, from a security standpoint.
I just wanted to peek in and say...since I started this topic, I have read all the replies and they are really wonderful and thank you everyone for giving such good information to newbies, you are all great
Wow weird.. I was skimming through this article while I had this playing through my tv Oops tried to upload a pic of my screen, Pokemon route music on a loop lol
I do freelance writing and editing, I've been published, and I've self-published. It has been scientifically proven that a person can't see their own typing and writing errors. So even though the pieces I work on for others are polished and well-done upon completion, I can't see the same kind of errors that I frequently correct for others in my own writing. I do not use an editor for my self-pub work, because it's not really something I consider a source of income at the moment. That said, for more significant books that I really want to sell and to be highly successful, I would definitely use an editing service. Another aspect that is useful when using an editor is overall readability. As the writer, you have an existing 'database' of knowledge, whereas the reader does not. So you may put something into words, and it makes sense to you but not necessarily to everyone, which is where a second, fresh set of eyes can be useful. Hopefully that makes sense. This is usually the issue I come across.
I believe you and I'm on your side, so please don't take it as a snide or antagonistic remark when I say I'd be interested in seeing those studies. I'll consult the Temple of the Almighty Google and see what I can find.
