1. SnapFandango

    SnapFandango Banned

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    Tolkein

    Discussion in 'Discussion of Published Works' started by SnapFandango, Sep 23, 2017.

    I read LotR as a child, it is a simple question to anyone who has studied this text/ author. Was it: -

    • LotR is a narratively updated Norse saga. It is a conflict of stark Good and Evil, populated by archetypal figures. It explicitly aspires to myth. It wears its conviction that there is a Good worth defending, and enduring privations for, in the hope of distant victory, on its sleeve. The connection between this aspirational tale about past days of virtue and a concern about the decline of the West is pretty self-evident.
    • you could equally argue that Tolkien was referring to the loss of his green and pleasant land to the grinding gears of industrialised modernity.
    I do have a dog in this race. The Norse Legend part is a given, so ignore that.
     
  2. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    To Adress your points.

    1. It is common knowledge that Tolkien was a college professor. His most famous lector was on Beuwolf. Many ideas from the epic appear within his works.

    2. This is one of the major Allegories that is present within LoTR. The Elves leaving middle earth, along with the fact the Saurman is an industrialist, hints at the idea mankind is moving away from its natural roots. Also, with the One Ring destroyed, Magic is forever lost in Middle Earth. 'Loss' is one of the major themes -though not the principle- that occurs within LoTR.
     
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  3. SnapFandango

    SnapFandango Banned

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    Thanks.
     
  4. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Allegory in The Lord of the Rings is kind of a minefield. Tolkien himself gave contradictory statements about this. Most famously in the Forward to Second Edition, Tolkien said:
    "The Lord of the Rings has been read by many people since it finally appeared in print; and I should like to say something here with reference to the many opinions of guesses that I have received or have read concerning the motives and meaning of the tale. The prime motive was the desire of a tale-teller to try his hand at a really long story that would hold the attention of readers, amuse them, delight them, and at times maybe excite them of deeply move them... As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical... I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence.​
    However, in a letter to Fr. Robert Murray, he claimed. "The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision." * Which is somewhat obvious when you thing about it. The death and rebirth of Gandalf filling the role of Jesus as they attempt to guide all the peoples of the Earth to salvation and the destruction of evil. In further letters, when asked about whether The Lord of the Rings was an allegory about atomic power (because everything was in the 50s) Tolkien responded with: "...not an allegory of Atomic power, but of Power (exerted for Domination)," and later continued, "I do not think that even Power or Domination is the real centre of my story…. The real theme for me is about something much more permanent and difficult: Death and Immortality.” * Effectively admitting that there were multiple themes and allegories within the books.
    Unfortunately because Tolkien died, (as some are wont to do) we can't really ask him whether it was about industrialization and deforestation. Fortunately for the reader, metaphor and allegory come in two flavours: there's implied allegory, what the author intended and strongly alluded towards; and inferred allegory, something the reader picks up on, but the author doesn't intend. Fortunately both types of allegory are equally valid given that the author hasn't discredited your theory, and whether you theory is valid basically comes down to what evidence you can show to back up your claim, versus the evidence against it. Basically, it doesn't matter if you're wrong as long as you have a compelling argument for what you believe.

    * Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
     
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  5. SnapFandango

    SnapFandango Banned

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    Thanks, that is great. I would rather know the truth than prove a lie, unless I had money on it.
     

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