Hardest Part to Write?

Discussion in 'General Writing' started by HellOnEarth, Apr 10, 2007.

  1. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    You want to really kick yourself in the head? Go into a huge, multistory bookstore like Waterstones, Borders, etc ...look around you and think: Aye, just what this world needs. Another bloody book! :bigeek:
     
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  2. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    I've never really understood this. If it's meant in a humorous manner then fair enough, but it seems like a direct contradiction to me. Every time I read it, my inner response it, "Well it's not easy then, is it?"
     
  3. newjerseyrunner

    newjerseyrunner Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    Women. Women have a wider range of emotions and wear them on their sleeve more-so than men. Evolution demanded very different thought processes for women not only are your end results different, but the entire chain of thoughts is confusing and convoluted to me. I'm always afraid a woman is going to read something that I've writ with leading females and think the emotions are depthless, or stereotypical, or just plain chauvinistic.
     
  4. Masked Mole

    Masked Mole Senior Member

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    For me, it might be staying completely accurate and consistent with perspective. I think that "Whose story is this?" sort of questions can embarrass pretty much anyone because it's so easy to let it drift.
    Another difficult one is finding the balance between discovery writing and planning. When I first started to write seriously, I tried outlining. It went very poorly. Yet I knew I could never totally discovery write. Eventually, I found a nice balance between the two.
     
  5. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    The best response I ever heard to this came during an interview with a male author (forget his name) who had gained a reputation for writing good female characters. When asked the question, "How do you write women so well?" his response was (paraphrasing) "I don't. I just write people."
     
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  6. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Yes.
     
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  7. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Senior Member

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    So basically: flesh out what happens between the important scenes? That's not too far from saying, "overcome writer's block by writing more."
     
  8. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    No, if you need to "flesh out what happens between the important scenes," then obviously the content has to be dealt with first. It's hard to apply a style to something that isn't written yet. But I don't think the OP was having a problem with writing the scenes:

    When you're just being pointed from one scene to the next, usually its because the scenes are happening too quickly/abruptly, so it might be more a pacing problem than a content problem for @Dracon. Narrative summary will slow the story down when it needs it and stretch the timeline without actually adding words. Even if it's just a few paragraphs here and there it can give the reader a chance to regroup and reset so the next five minute chunk doesn't feel as abrupt. Few things are seamless, though. Generally I've found that the fewer scenes you have to fit together the better, so it can be helpful to limit the big events to a handful of tightly honed and glued together with just enough narrative summary to make them stand out. For me, if a have a string of blow-by-blow scenes that doesn't feel right, I'll pick a scene in the middle of it and convert it from direct action to more of an unpinned summary of the same events. Usually with longer and more observational sentences. Easier said than done, though.
     
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  9. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    The hardest part of writing? For me, it's finding people to read it. ;)
     
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  10. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    I really do find your posts invaluable, Homer. You have a great knack for getting to the roots of a problem, but could you elaborate on this one. Do you mean by this that you would switch to the 'telling' of a scene rather than 'showing' ?
     
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  11. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    At this point in my writing craft, I am learning how to write Metrically. I understand the theory and can write Metrical lines that are correct, but what is hard is being able to write say 100 lines in a night. I am picking up speed, but making it 2nd nature is proving to be a bit of a challenge.
     
  12. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I wouldn't call it that, show vs. tell isn't the same as blow by blow vs. narrative summary, but we're probably thinking of the same things with different names. Here's an example of narrative summary (with a little extemporaneous dialogue in the middle) from my current WIP:


    It was after dark before Lambert got some good news —Boggs had found the militia truck. Or what was left of it, abandoned in a lot near the southern quays, just eight blocks from where Kamar was killed.

    “They burned it, sir. Probably an incendiary grenade. Inside gutted but the registration numbers were still visible on the cab. They match your man’s description, but I can’t attest to their authenticity. We’ll have to check with the Andaris to see if they have a truck missing, but it looks like a mockup to me."

    And that was it. No weapons or explosive parts found. No suspects seen in the truck or around the neighborhood where they found it. They were still checking the street cameras, but Boggs wasn’t optimistic.


    Not the greatest example, but this used to be a longer scene with back and forth dialogue, reveals, interior monologue, etc. The trouble was that there were long blow by blow scenes before and after it, and it felt as if we were just moving from scene to scene with no break to show that time was actually passing. Especially for these "investigative" type scenes where the reader can only absorb so many reveals and conclusions before their attention span overloads. There's more to this scene that I didn't include because it wouldn't have made any sense without context, but hopefully by slowing down and glossing over all the ins and outs, the more detailed scenes on either side of it will stick out more. Who knows. The battle is never ending.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
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  13. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    I like your style. Where can I read your stuff?
     
  14. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Word power. I struggle with word power.

    Over the years my writing has improved - even I can see that - but it's the one area that still doesn't come to me naturally. It's not that I don't know or understand these words, turns of phrase, etc, when I see them in other's work, but I think my writing can be overly simple.

    I'm too tired to look for examples right now, but it's when I read stuff from good, established writers, that it occurs to me how much simpler the same line would have been if written by me. It might be a clever simile or metaphor, a colourful alternative to a common word, inventive use of personification, whatever, but these things don't come to me naturally. I think it separates amateurs from professionals more so than anything else.

    I wonder how one goes about improving that aspect of their writing?
     
  15. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    This is called compression (which does not mean fewer words, it means 'better' words.)

    I believe that Stephen Dobyns (I'll have to check) has two collection of essays on the subject.
     
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  16. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Thank you. I've got a few things on here. Nothing fancy, but you can click on my profile page and find them under "workshop entries" if you like.
     
  17. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Thanks, OJB, I'll go look it up.

    ETS: Can't find anything that relates. I'm not saying compression isn't a literary device, but I wonder if we're talking about the same thing.

    I'll give a very crude example of what I mean (although it's not a good one because I'd never use the first). The principle is the same, but on a much higher level if that makes sense.

    Ex.1: I looked up at a cloudless blue sky
    Ex.2: I looked up at the sky, a flawless ceiling of porcelain.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
  18. Azuresun

    Azuresun Senior Member

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    Well, a lot of critics will hold female characters (especially ones written by a man) to much harsher scrutiny--this one is too emotional, this one isn't emotional enough, this one is obvious male wish-fulfilment, this one is just a "man with boobs", etc.
     
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  19. Damien Loveshaft

    Damien Loveshaft Active Member

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    Ignoring people who criticize my writing for not being the current popular style or for having a somewhat high grade level. I feel pressured to conform a lot.
     
  20. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Well if that's really the case, and as men, we can't win then.
     
  21. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Since the word is "compression", what about

    I looked up at the flawless porcelain sky.

    Or, really

    I looked up at the porcelain sky.

    ?
     
  22. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    @ChickenFreak - yes that works, but it was just a crude example to illustrate my point.

    This is why I say I'm not sure @OJB and I are talking about the same thing when he talks of compression.
     
  23. Azuresun

    Azuresun Senior Member

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    Eh, like all forms of criticism, it'll sometimes have merit and sometimes it won't. What I'm saying is that I can understand how fear of that criticism might put someone off writing characters of a different gender (or race, sexuality, religion, etc) by making it seem like a minefield where you might stumble into a hidden trap at any moment. Like any other character, I think the best way to write a female character is to write a convincing individual and bear in mind that if nobody could possibly find somebody offensive, they don't actually have a personality. :)
     
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  24. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    Not fewer words, better words = Compression.

    It might be better if I Illustrated the point.

    Example #1: A really hot fire burned down the building and turned it into ash.

    A really hot fire = inferno

    Burned down and turned into ash = incinerate.

    New sentence: 'An inferno incinerated the building.'

    Yes, I do have fewer words, but that was never the goal. The Goal is finding better words (which usually means fewer words, but not always.) This is the basic principle behind compression (That and subtext.)

    I know Sol Stien has a whole chapter about it in his book 'Sol Stien on Writing.'
     
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  25. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Well in that case we are understanding each other after all.

    My confusion over this came about when I went searching for information on literary compression, and could find nothing that related to the element of writing I find doesn't come naturally, which in your reply you called 'compression'.

    Confused? You will be ...
     

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