Help Choosing Firearms

Discussion in 'Research' started by Sclavus, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. 33percent

    33percent Active Member

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    I am a gun owner, and also do collect guns as a hobby. I was in the army, 11B the common weapons they used were M4, SAW and 240. Those three weapons were the bread and butter of defeating the enemies on the battlefield. You need to think of what they'll be carrying on them. Rucking with 45-60 lbs of gear, that included ammo, IOTV, water, food, sleeping bag, etc and any type of gear you can think of was the common weight for an Army Infantrymen. The one thing I hate about Hollywood and even reading in books is the obvious fiction(ones who are not experienced) from reality. Weapons do jam, for the love of God. Not one movie, tv show even the walking dead, shows a single malfunction and how to get out of it, especially in a firefight. Especially M4's and AR15's, the sensitive type of weapons if you don't keep them clean they will jam easily. AK47's will be a good weapon for a rough environment or suppression fire.

    If this was a zombie apocalypse, seems like your book setting is set in. There will be reloaders, finding any empty shell casings, and melting down anything to be used as a round. Then the rules are off the table of modifications. The SCAR 17 is a great weapon(I own both 17 and 16) but only limited to .308 and 7.62, it would be debatable to be my main firearm but more of my regular patrol firearm(If there was a base walking distance away). The ammo for .308 can get heavy as hell compared to 5.56 and you can carry more of it. I would carry everything light as possible. I would have three type of firearms on me at all times, depending on the situation/mission. My main firearm would be between a 5.56 and .308, 9mm and a shotgun. The Sub 2000 will be a great weapon for traveling light and fast, even it's 9 mm but 5.56 and .308 caliber will make everyone know you're there.
    The

    You can easily make oil filters your alternative ghetto style to suppressors.


    Firearms are like golf clubs, each type of weapon has a different unique use for it. If these guys are former SpecOps, they're trained in any variant of weaponry and use the right type of weapon for the situation. If they're breaching a house, for CQB style, they will be using CQB type of weapons. Basically short barrel type of weapons, if you're killing a horder of zombies. A simple Saiga 12 with a bump fire, full drum can literally make a horde of zombies gone like that. You can easily use a sawed off shot gun, or "Shorty".

    Now for pistols, a simple Glock or revolver will do, which is the common pistol laying around anyways. If you want the cool badass factor look. A raging judge, colt python or even a 1911. The Raging Judge is a beast type of pistol meant for hunting down Hogs. Raging Judge could take down multiple of zombies down. Also the famous Spas 12 shot gun will always be the badass shot gun. Just some ideas for you.
     
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  2. Sclavus

    Sclavus Active Member

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    Thank you for the input. I've got three groups at play, initially:

    Survivors - a group of civilians led by three former SpecOps (SAS, SBS, USAF CCT) and one disabled veteran infantryman.

    Government - this includes soldiers from the Army and National Guard, police from CSPD, etc.

    Hellions - the mercenary group going after the survivors, sometimes taking out government forces to achieve their own agenda. They think of themselves as SpecOps, but would get ripped to shreds by regular Army infantry if the Hellions didn't have overwhelming numbers.

    My survivors start out with sporting goods and pawn shop guns. Then they graduate to military hardware. Eventually the vast majority of the government forces leave, so the survivors are faced with Hellions and zombies. The Hellions keep using Zed as a weapon and shield, and the survivors have to fight Zed and try taking out Hellions in the meantime.

    Eventually the survivors will reclaim the city and establish their own new military, which they'll use in later books to slowly reclaim a piece of the world from Zed.
     
  3. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Calico M950, 50 rounds of 9mm.
    Calico M-950.jpg
    Down side is you have to wind the mag spring. :p
     
  4. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    and its inaccurate as shit, while you are spraying rounds all over the sky with that i'm shooting you in the head with one round of 5.56 from beyond your effective range
     
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  5. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    And it doesn't work. I owned an M-100 .22lr rifle, jammed fairly regularly, but I've seen youtube vid on the 9mm pistol and it's basically a linear bolt action.

     
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  6. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Yeah, I saw one about the 9mm that had the same problems.
    Just though it would be 'functional' in fiction, considering most
    are not familiar with the weapon, and it looks like it was designed
    by Super-Soaker. :p
     
  7. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    If for some reason I wanted to through a shitload of lead down range and didn't have access to a belt fed weapon like the Minimi , the HK51 with a one hundred round drum would be an option



    I'd still rather have an AR15 or an SA80mk2 though 30 well placed rounds beat 100 sprayed all over the place
     
  8. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    EOTD its far more about who has the weapon than how badass it is, you can have the most badass gun in the whole world against a man armed with a pointed stick, and it still won't do you any good it he stabs you in the eye while you're searching for the safety catch, or if you expend your whole 300 round belt decorating the sky and then don't have time to reload before hes on top of you.
     
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  10. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    I believe it is like 21ft is the lethal range from draw to fire on
    a knife welding opponent. Though blades always get the edge
    since they don't have to be reloaded. :p
    Seems the shuriken dipped in poison would be your best bet,
    as it can be recovered.
    OR in the very least a portable shield that can take the abuse. :p

    Otherwise having something that is accurate at 100yrds and farther
    will be your best option. With a reasonably reliable small backup.

    Unless you plan on pulling an Ivan that can carry a freaking arsenal. :D
    Ivan.jpg
     
  11. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    Yup. I forget who it was, gun columnist I read in my misspent youth, who pointed out that a hit with a .22LR did infinitely more damage than a miss with a .44 Magnum. Shot placement isn't everything, but it counts for a lot more than people assume.
     
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  12. 33percent

    33percent Active Member

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    The P90 or PS90 is an excellent weapon. The recoil shoots as if it's a airsoft gun and it's a good weapon for CQB such as if someone is invading your house.
     
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  13. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    While I don't doubt that, I think that they are looking for an effective ranged weapon
    for combat use, not lurking in a home. A reliable weapon for psuedo combat use
    given the urban civvie using it would be an AR-15 or a Galiel for someone with lack
    of Mil spec options, for a reliable weapon to employ. The AK47 is a decent option as
    a mid-ranged weapon with a good reliability. And for a side arm as back up Glock seems
    like a good option, as it can be converted into a machine pistol. You want stopping power
    over ROF. That is why the old .45, while fires a slower bullet packs a better punch than the
    9mm. So for the average yahoo, a solid 30 caliber rifle will drop a man at 1000 yards.
     
  14. Sclavus

    Sclavus Active Member

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    My survivors will be fighting mostly in CQB to begin with. They'll want long-range weapons later, after about six weeks. They can get those from:
    • Sporting goods stores
    • Pawn shops
    • Homes
    • Cars
    • Police stations
    • Some businesses
    • Bodies
    • Abandoned military equipment
    For their first battle, they'll be on defense. After that, they get pissed enough to go hunting, and they grow from four to thirteen in their ranks. That's when Vincent will need a rifle with some precision. Then they'll get a few Hellion defectors, and pick up seven soldiers who were stranded in the chaos.

    Over time their ranks grow and shrink with civilians, with losses from disease, a few infected, a suicide, and some combat injuries.

    I figured out they can survive on the spoils of battle with the Hellions until the end, when a coordinated Hellion attack demoralizes them and it's up to Vincent and six others to end the thirty or so Hellions left. After that, what's left of the survivors will need to open the armory, after pulling the key card from the Hellion leader.

    Book two will go into equipping a militia, training them to fight with military hardware, etc., though by that time the Hellions will be finished, and ASCM will make Zed cleanup its priority.

    If it's true to an extent that a gun is only as good as its operator, then I don't see why ASCM can't use civilian weapons against the Hellions' military hardware.
     
  15. 33percent

    33percent Active Member

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    If they want range weapons like I said you need to learn modifications on weapons. This is what I want for Christmas, belt fed AR15.


    Saiga 12 with slide fire.


    Me just having fun at the range with ps90.
     
  16. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    The main problem ASCM will have is weight of numbers 13 against a couple of thousand is a losing proposition in an open firefight just from weight of number - this why small SF teams don't do well against third world armies unless they have significant airpower in support. At that point your only sensible tactic is ambush , IEd and sniping not getting pinned down into a knock down and drag out firefight.

    That aside in untrained hands fullauto fire is just a way to run through your limited ammunition faster , and for close up home defence/CQB not much beats a shotgun

    for your final battle of 6 vs 30, if you are fighting 5-1 odds you need to pick the terrain and use ambush and surprise to demoralise your enemy, along with grenades and booby traps etc to even the odds a bit before it gets mano et mano
     
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  17. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Ultimately I think Ripley inadvertently frankensteined the best
    weapon for the Zombie killing army.
    Ripley 1.jpg
    You've got your rifle, grenade launcher, and flame thrower. Coming soon with optional can opener. :p
    Realistically you can save your ammo for enemy targets, and burn zombos. Now the hard part
    is integrating all those elements into a much more ergonomic package. Or duct tape, whatever works. :D
     
  18. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Trouble is the reality is that flame throwers are heavy unwieldy things and that their fuel tanks are very vulnerable to going bang when hit with incoming fire or frag. Also it takes time to burn someone badly enough to kill them ( South African recondo's developed the tactic of running straight at a flame thrower whilst firing on full auto whilst fighting Swapo who had a number of soviet supplied flame throwers, on the logic that you'd probably kill the operator before you got torched.)

    They are good for clearing minefields and for the psychological effect they have on untrained mobs (who have a biological imperative to fear fire) but they aren't a serious weapon for either trained oposition or Zed who don't feel fear

    This is why I suggested M202 projectile flame weapons earlier which negate a lot of issues with a thrower - but these are too heavy to cart about except on vehicles
     
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  19. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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  20. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Not only that, but if you used one you'd also have a bunch of flaming zombies barreling down on you instead of just regular ones. It's kind of like the difference between being burned to death while being eaten alive instead of just being eaten alive. Though in all honesty, it's probably been a while since any of the infected had a nice hot meal.
     
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  21. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    On the other hand leaving behind the crumbling remains of society and
    the infected to a remote location like an uninhabited island, would also
    solve a few of the problems. When you can never actually win, just let the
    rest of the world fight each other in an endless cycle, where they clearly
    will degrade to one side (the infected) eventually kicking their ass. Seems
    that something that has no 'side' so to speak can really be a game changer
    in a conventional combat situation that involves infighting amongst the populace.
    This does not take into account the percentage of those who commit suicide,
    not related to fighting other humans or being infected. So you would really
    want to reconsider sterilizing the planet and hope like hell such a pathogen
    does not crop up again. Cause realistically given your scenario, there is not
    going to be much (if anything left to fight for).

    So it would seem that it becomes difficult to beat an enemy that does not
    care, along with other people trying to get in your way. Round up as many
    healthy people as you can, and start an extreme scorched earth policy.
     
  22. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Neutron bomb - problem solved
     
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  23. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    Tsar Bomba - all problems solved.
     
  24. mg357

    mg357 Active Member

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    Sclavus i have been reading your post and i have a few thoughts.

    their are civilian as well as military rifles that are chambered for the 762X51mm rifle cartridge so arm the civilian members of your group with a civilian version of a rifle in that caliber.

    Regarding your handgun selection the Beretta 92FS is the civilian version of the M9 and is widely available at most gun stores if you plan on using suppressors why not have a member of your group be able to make them out of everyday objects.

    If you want to use a back-up handgun for each character here are a few suggestions the Ruger sp101 with a 2 inc barrel it is currently manufactured in the 9mm caliber and the Ruger LCR which is short for Light Compact Revolver which is also chambered in 9mm. these two revolvers are also widely available at most gun stores as well.
     

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