Help with a galaxy ending weapon.

Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by DemonKing, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    18,851
    Likes Received:
    35,471
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    And do you realize how many a trillion is? You have

    all organizationally controlled by one leader.

    NASA tells us that
    Imagine each of those seconds is a ship, and each ship has at least one occupant. And they're all being ordered about by one being.

    Scale. it. back.
     
    halisme and Simpson17866 like this.
  2. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    Yep. If you say, "A fleet of five thousand ships," that feels big, because the mind can process it.

    Trillions? Far less impressive.
     
    Simpson17866 likes this.
  3. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,136
    Likes Received:
    19,758
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    So much for proportionality...
     
    Simpson17866 likes this.
  4. Azuresun

    Azuresun Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2017
    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    573
    It sounds like you're going for huge-scale space opera, so don't sweat the particulars of making it plausible beyond the bare minimum if you want the focus to be on the broad sweep, and personal stories. If you're going for implausible science and numbers, I think it's best to go all the way rather than worry about trying to placate the sort of readers who'd go "but but but ma science!", and trust that the rule of cool will give your audience the buy-in you need.

    Presumably, you have some means of faster-than-light travel in your setting, so maybe use that as the basis for destroying so many stars simultaneously--for example, if it uses wormholes, maybe the plan involves opening them inside stars to siphon out their mass at an exponential rate, or smashing them together across space to forcefully create black holes.
     
    Simpson17866 and DemonKing like this.
  5. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,566
    Likes Received:
    25,882
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    The other option is character exageration

    If we read something like "The fuck man, there's trillions of them" we know that a rather excitable character (picture Hudson in Aliens) has seen a lot of enemy, we don't actually take it to mean to mean that there's 1000,000,000,000 plus'

    "they're every where man, its game over, game over "
     
    Simpson17866 and DemonKing like this.
  6. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,136
    Likes Received:
    19,758
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    A trillion ships? Eat your heart out, Helen of Troy.
     
    Simpson17866 and Iain Aschendale like this.
  7. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,566
    Likes Received:
    25,882
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    "It wasn't a face to launch a thousand ships, may be two ships and a small yacht" Dave Lister when he first meets Kochanski
     
  8. newjerseyrunner

    newjerseyrunner Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    1,432
    Wait, I don't see a trillion to be a problem at all if you use something called a Von Neumann craft. Futuristic space ships should be able to repair themselves. Anything that could possible break should be able to be replaced. Some form of advanced 3D printing. If it's capable of recreating all of its own parts, it can replicate itself. Then, you have a geometric progression.

    1 ship becomes 2, 2 becomes 4, 4 becomes 8... You only need 39 iterations of this to reach a trillion. If it takes a week to copy itself, you can easily have a trillion crafts in less than a year. Geometric progression, it's a wild thing.
     
    DemonKing likes this.
  9. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    But you still need materials. Also, where do you store a trillion ships? And communication? I assume there's no crew. But in that case, what's the point of the ships as ships?
     
    Simpson17866 likes this.
  10. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,566
    Likes Received:
    25,882
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    may be the ships are alive and actually are the aliens - they've had a malthusian crisis and come seeking pastures new

    they communicate via shared consciousness
     
  11. newjerseyrunner

    newjerseyrunner Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    1,432
    The universe is full of raw materials. Almost every single star has tons of debris around it. It wouldn't require a lot of material to make a trillion ships either. Our moon alone has enough mass to create a quadrillion ships if they each weigh a million kilograms.

    Floating around in space? Why would you store them anywhere? If you stored them on a planet or around a star, you'd have to fight the gravity well to get them out, wasting energy. I'd park them in Lagrange points between stars.

    Swarm behavior. They'd only have to talk to the ones nearest to it.

    Why would you put living creatures in warships if you could help it? If the ship is destroyed, you kill the crew, why would you risk that? Any species advanced enough to be flying through the galaxy has probably invented powerful AI eons before.
     
    DemonKing and Homer Potvin like this.
  12. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    18,851
    Likes Received:
    35,471
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    "Loretta, you have the face that sank a thousand ships."
    -The Lockhorns
     
    Simpson17866 likes this.
  13. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    17,922
    Likes Received:
    27,173
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    Enough anti-matter to equal the weight of a 1000 suns?
     
    Simpson17866 likes this.
  14. DemonKing

    DemonKing Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    4
    It's controlled by one A.I. Leader with robots only on watch ship
     
  15. DemonKing

    DemonKing Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    4
    There A.I.s controlled by a command A.I. General. He was made to help coordinate the Techics millitary fleet. But he ended up taking control of the fleet and turning there own weapons against them.
     
  16. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,864
    Likes Received:
    10,738
    Location:
    The great white north.
    So wouldn't it be more efficient and practical to destroy the AI? Trillions of of ships that are pretty accustomed to being controlled by an AI would probably be pretty useless without it.
     
    DemonKing likes this.
  17. DemonKing

    DemonKing Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    4
    Yes but for starters the marjority of his fleet with his ship is still inbound. His advance force is comanded by another AI. But she is behind 20 lines of the generals ships. Witch they are already having trouble just holding the line becouse the generals ships are about 500ish years ahead of humanity's. But at the end they get to attack the second AI and destroy here but that's when the generals flagship arrives. It has 4 multi-core layers of shields, millions of combat drones onboard, and the firepower to level a planet. It also has factory's onboard capible of building 4 ships per hour and over 100,000 combat drones in a hour. So there is no way they can bord the ship with the Newark fire power to cut threw the blast doors leading to the bridge while holding off the waves of combat drones. And a derect assault on the bridge is also the impossible becouse it has a ton of firepower around it. Another layer of shielding around it. As well as being able to lower into the hull at any given moment. They do have stealth ship but it can only hold 4.
     
  18. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    17,922
    Likes Received:
    27,173
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    Send the guy with wire cutters, and a plasma torch.

    What kind of shielding does this group of machines have?
     
  19. DemonKing

    DemonKing Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    4
    Normal kind. But there capital ship has 4 layers of the shield with emitters that can't burn out. So they only got a few minuites before a shield layer restores itself
     
  20. halisme

    halisme Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,772
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    That's another thing, if they're after resources, why would they go for the inhabited area. So much of our galaxy is just empty swathes of resources they could take.
     
  21. LazyBear

    LazyBear Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2017
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    231
    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    A singularity of dark matter would penetrate anything but a space-time rift shield since dark matter can only affect us by gravity. A space-time rift shield would then only allow extensions of the rift to attack back but controlling a rift is difficult once the connection is broken and it cannot be turned off. A gravitron chamber might be able to collect and launch the dark matter but it will have to build it up for a very long time since being exposed to gravity being leaked from the chamber will slow down time. The gravitron chamber would have to be sacrificed when the dark matter is released.
     
  22. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    17,922
    Likes Received:
    27,173
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    Got it. The physics defying impregnable kind. Well painted into a corner.

    Those that are plausible would be plasma and electromagnetic shields.
    Particle accelerators are useless, as machines that are space worthy
    would shrug off the radiation. Also an EM shield would deflect it.
    And plasma shields would need enormous amounts of ionizable gas.
    Reflective surface renders lasers all but useless (they would merely
    have the same effect as an astronaut trying to push the space shuttle
    with his hands.)
    Kinetic energy weapons have the best rating. But if you can't hit anything
    vital through thick layers of armor, you are kinda wasting your time.

    Here is where your painting into the corner comes in. If the AI
    has basically an impregnable shield x4. Odds are they have a fancy
    fusion reactor, and are scooping up hydrogen to feed it right out
    of the very space they pass through. So you can't win by trying to
    get inside. All you can do is try to get it caught in the gravity well
    of a star or black hole.

    So unless you have some physics defying weapon, those are pretty
    much your only two options for beating them.
     
    Simpson17866 likes this.
  23. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    18,851
    Likes Received:
    35,471
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    The good ship UpupdowndownleftrightleftrightBA....
     
  24. Magical Writer

    Magical Writer Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Kent, England
    Reading all the comments It doesn't seem to me like science will be the support frame in your story. So on that basis I would say the answer to your question is do whatever your story calls for, not whether something is likely to happen. If you want the gas giants and plasma clouds to be destroyed then go for it. If you need them to survive then make it so.

    Just bare in mind the majority of Sci-Fi fans are proper hardcore and clued up. They are constantly scanning for anomalies scrutinising everything at a subconscious level. Its unlikely they'll engage as a reader. They certainly won't feel energized.

    Good luck :agreed:
     
    Medazza and Simpson17866 like this.
  25. newjerseyrunner

    newjerseyrunner Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    1,432
    Plasma shielding is not a realistic technology. The idea of plasma some how destroying projectiles is just wrong. There is no mechanism there to absorb the momentum.

    Also, you may be misunderstanding reflection. Metal reflect light by first absorbing it, then retaliating it. This is actually a slow process (in quantum mechanical terms) and while the energy is inside the mirror, it acts as heat. Di-electric mirrors are more effective and faster at reflecting, but they are only able to work on very specific frequencies, everything else goes straight through.



    If you want hard sci-fi. Stay away from “singularities” (they aren’t a real thing, just a mathematical thing) and dark matter. Dark matter is appealing for laymen because it’s largely unknown. However, math reveals some surprisingly tight parameters that it has to fit it (such as that it can’t clump or be contained.)
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice