1. NobodySpecial

    NobodySpecial Contributor Contributor

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    Passive-agressive behavior

    Discussion in 'Character Development' started by NobodySpecial, Oct 21, 2017.

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  2. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Holy shit. These are GOOD! And it made me recognise certain undesirable traits in myself. Especially 1,2,3 and 5, that illustrate how I tend to deal with unwanted demands on my time. Shit. That's me. Say yes prematurely, when I really mean 'oh shit, not again.' I'm good at the martyr act, unfortunately. But I am learning. I say 'no' more easily now than I did in my youth.

    It's amazing how persistent people can be, though, if you explain kindly why 'no' you don't want to do this or that. I'm always taken aback, when they start trying to come up with many reasons why the polite excuse I've given for saying no (to attending an event, or engaging in some social activity) isn't valid. Strange.

    I've come up with a strategy now, that seems to work well. I say no, thanks for asking, but I don't want to do that—it doesn't appeal to me. If they start huffing and chuffing about how I SHOULD want to do that, I just keep repeating 'no.'

    I often get snidey passive-aggressive behavior from these folks in future encounters, though. "Well, I know that you probably don't want to do (anything fun) any more, but just in case you've changed your mind, I though I'd ask again..." It's funny, really. The word 'no' is very powerful, and people don't like it when it's used against them, do they?
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
  3. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    It's worth noting that being passive aggressive isn't necessarily something malign; it's a description of behavior and doesn't really come with a motive implied. Manipulative people certainly will use passive aggressive things to get what they want, but really all people do some of this stuff sometimes because we are just people doing people stuff. Like, it is passive aggressive to 'accidentally on purpose' but you can also cast that as 'showing disapproval without making it a big thing'. Same for complaining about cleaning up after someone but refusing to let them help you; yes the entire point of that is to make sure that they know they put you out. But that's kinda their punishment for it, you know? It's not manipulative to show them that their thoughtless actions actually have effects on other people; often times just saying that they did isn't really enough, you're trying to make them ashamed so they won't do it again and that can be a reasonable way to handle it. Not all the time. But sometimes being disappointed and disapproving and showing that they caused you strife is totally understandable. And being passive aggression often means that you avoid having to have a real confrontation with someone which can be a better way to handle it. Especially with people who have a short temper and will instantly turn a confrontation into a massive screaming row or with someone who you know that you can't stand up to for whatever reason then being passive aggressive may be a much better answer. When you're talking about small slights that you don't want to turn into some massive drama just quietly reminding them they were being a prick beats fisticuffs.

    I think the question here is less about passive aggressive actions themselves, it's how they come together in a person/character. Repeated, constant passive aggression is what makes a character really manipulative, always emotionally black mailing everyone and then playing the victim when they confront you about it. That's a manipulative character. And it's useful to see all the options you have available as a writer, to give you ideas about how they can always somehow make everything about them even as an unassertive character. But don't think that this is stuff that only manipulative people do. This happens in all relationships and with all characters some times. The border between 'asking for what I want' and 'manipulating you' is really fuzzy.

    For example; is it selfish for me to ask someone to do something I want? No context, just in the abstract. Am I being selfish for asking someone to play along just to make me happy? It could be, right? And if I make them squirm by saying that they said they would, that it's a big deal to me, that I've never asked them for anything else; in other words if I am passive aggressive about it; that might sound manipulative. But of course; I still want them to actually do it because it matters to me. And if they are saying no, or forgetting I ever mentioned it, when it's not a big thing to ask them and it would be easy to make me happy and they are someone that loves me, well, who is being manipulative here? Maybe either, maybe neither. And it's not anything malign, it's just people being people. It doesn't make you manipulative as a person to try and get what you want, even if you slip into some of these things. It would be nice if we could all just be really assertive and grown up about things and just state clearly and unemotionally what you want but that's not always easy.

    It's important to see this stuff through the characters eyes and understand why they are doing it. If someone always makes you feel like shit and constantly plays the victim then they are being manipulative. But sometimes people just snap at each other without meaning to, and sometimes you deserve to get your toes trod on.
     
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  4. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    For me, the bottom lines are:

    1) Am I trying to subtly hurt somebody without taking responsibility for it?
    2) Am I attempting to sabotage some project as part of a power trip/game?

    Those are two things I never do, and get really angry when I see them being done. However, some of the other behaviours sound a bit familiar to me. Thanks for making them sound less horrible, @LostThePlot. :oops:

    Sometimes what is described as 'passive aggressive' in that article can also be seen as giving people broad hints, and hoping the hints get taken. If the hints get taken and the behaviour stops, then that's the end of it. However, I'm beginning to favour the straightforward approach. This gets easier as I get older and care less about what others think of me or my wishes. Being straightforward isn't being rude. It's just letting people know where you stand.

    I feel that you can't really change somebody else. However, you CAN change your reaction to them. So instead of being coy about something like I don't want to do present exchanges at Christmas any more, what you can do is say, "I've decided that from now on I won't be giving out Christmas presents, and I would appreciate not receiving them any more either. I feel that Christmas has become too commercialised, and I've certainly got all the 'stuff' I want. I'd prefer to get together with friends and celebrate the season with good company, food and drink instead."

    Then if somebody (and they will!) stubbornly decides to give you a present anyway, you can simply reiterate that you already told them you aren't doing present exchanges any more and that you haven't bought them anything. If they continue to insist that they give you one but don't want one back, you don't need to feel guilty about their behaviour. You've let them know where you stand. They are the ones who are likely being manipulative and trying to 'shame' you into getting back on board with the Christmas fol-de-rol. On that issue, you might find a lot of people agree with you and are relieved at your decision, though! So the approach can certainly have benefits as well as drawbacks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
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  5. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    cough, resources, cough
     
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  6. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    That would be a good place to also put it. However, this is, at present, under the Character Development section, and as such, I think it's okay to discuss the principle the article gave us? However, I've said my bit and will leave it for now.
     
  7. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    No, it's not always easy, but the fact that refraining from manipulative passive-aggressive behavior is difficult doesn't mean that it's not manipulative passive-aggressive behavior. Your post seems to be defending manipulative passive-aggressive behavior.

    Now, I realize that plenty of people and characters will engage in that behavior, and that doesn't make the people or characters demons in human form or anything. But it's still a fault.
     
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  8. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I would call that indirect speech, rather than passive aggression. They're tightly tied together, because indirect speech is an essential tool of passive aggression, but indirect speech can also just be a chosen mode of communication. (A mode that I dislike, but I can see when it's intended in a positive or benign way.)
     
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  9. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Yes. I draw the line at anything that does deliberate harm to others. Either directly by inflicting little sharp barbs or by sabotaging their efforts to accomplish something worthwhile—then standing back and pretending you did no such thing.

    That's a lot different from finding it difficult to say no to demands or requests, or avoiding people who are trying to get you to do something you don't want to do, or complaining and moaning, in hopes that certain people will take a hint and pull their socks up.
     
  10. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    yeah I didnt mean don't discuss it here ... I was just hinting that this sort of thing would make a good resource (its a duplication not a move), mostly because in a month this thread will have slid off the front page and got lost in the ether
     
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  11. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Yes, it certainly would. It was a very interesting read. And some of the links in the article were interesting as well.
     
  12. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Ive just noticed that the OP is a senior member s they don't have full resouce access yet (my bad) I'll create it and assign it over

    ETA - Done
     
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  13. NobodySpecial

    NobodySpecial Contributor Contributor

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    That was kind of what I meant it as, a resource.
     

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