1. Ice Nov

    Ice Nov New Member

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    My characters are religious fanatics; help with dialogue

    Discussion in 'Dialogue Development' started by Ice Nov, Oct 8, 2017.

    I'm preparing to write a historical fiction novel. I have 3 main characters all of whom are starting this movement.

    So to do some research I decided to visit a few religious internet forums just to lurk and see what people were talking about and how they talked to each other. The results were inspirational. It really helped a lot with getting into the mindset. Then it hit me, do I write all the dialogue in this manner. I have to say most of it was a bit out there. For example every other sentence is referring to "In the light of the spirit" "By HIS word". It's a bit daunting, this is how people are speaking today and I'm writing about the equivalent of these people 400 years ago. I'm creating dialogue for preachers who are literally speaking about the imminent destruction of the world in fire and brimstone.

    My question is do I go all in with this, every conversation having every other sentence be related to HIM or do I only use it in bursts. Behind closed doors do they start to speak normally?

    I think the realistic answer is yes they probably do talk like that all the time and it's not just for show. But for the sake of the reader and my sanity it feels like it would flow more smoothly if it were used sparingly. But if I do that do my characters become dishonest? Only one of them is supposed to be dishonest and that's not supposed to be apparent until about halfway through.

    My only other option would be to relegate all three characters to secondary characters and have new characters observing their journey.

    disclaimer
    I am not in anyway disrespecting people who do talk like that and especially not the followers of the sect I'm writing about. Actually it's the opposite. I kind of love them and agree with them in many ways. I think I may even be one of them. If not for the whole believing in god part.
     
  2. Aled James Taylor

    Aled James Taylor Contributor Contributor

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    I would have the characters talk normally most of the time with religious terms in greetings (blessed be the day, under his eye, etc). If they speak of an issue where their religious beliefs come into play, then have them speak using religious terms where necessary to say what they want to say.

    I'd also use 'him' instead of 'Him' or 'HIM' as the capitalisation in mid sentence can be annoying if you're not used to it.
     
  3. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

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    My relatives are Evangelicals. (I'm quite the opposite.) In normal conversation they really only pull out the religious phraseology if something dramatic is happening, and then it's just peppered in. Online, it's used much more.

    It also came out a lot more when one of their flock, and later their pastor, tried unsuccessfully to convert me.

    My relatives sound pretty much like anyone else until you don't agree with their religious philosophy. Then it all comes out.
     
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  4. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I'm pretty sure that they will speak normally most of the time.

    One element of the research could be finding out what they don't say. For example, I remember saying that I hated something (say, "I hate liver") and a friend's mother told me that they don't use the word 'hate' in their house. I don't remember if that was religion-based or something else.
     
  5. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

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    That's definitely a thing. :rolleyes: In the case of my relatives, they have no problem with treating others in a hateful manner in the name of religion, though.

    Don't forget power struggles within the church. My relatives would fight each other to the death if they thought it would get them more brownie points with God.

    Edited to add: For your characters' motivations, should you get stuck, in my relatives' church, the order of importance is--and this is said blatantly, not just implied: 1. God and Church. 2. Family. If choices have to be made, God and Church always comes first.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
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  6. Kalisto

    Kalisto Senior Member

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    No one talks the way they write on the internet. That's the only answer you need.
     
  7. Sir Robin

    Sir Robin Member

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    If you're trying to determine how religious zealots (I think that's what you're talking about) spoke four hundred years ago, maybe you could research history to see how they may have spoken in that period. Are you working on anything specific in history, such as the Salem Witch trials for example? You might check and see how they may have spoken during that time. I think a lot of the religious zealotry of the time was centered around a combination of control, insecurity, and maybe even a little bit of paranoia.
     
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  8. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Yes, @Ice Nov , that was my question as well. What time period have you chosen for your story? And where is the story set?
     
  9. Sclavus

    Sclavus Active Member

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    This has been my experience as well. I'm a Christian and theologically evangelical, and even so my family's phraseology bugs me.

    If I say "good luck," they reply, "God's blessings," in a corrective tone. If I say something they theologically or politically disagree with, out come the Bible stories to "prove" me wrong. For them, the priority is more: church, Bible, God, family (which has its own pecking order). Oh, and politics is always intertwined with religion. If their church had its way, we'd have a Southern Baptist national religion as government policy.
     
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  10. RMBROWN

    RMBROWN Senior Member

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    As someone who was involved in the ministry in the past. I can say none of the stereo types are true to form all of the time. It would be kind of like trying to say, so how to do writers talk at Star Bucks, when the lap top is open and their cup of over priced coffee steams in front of them. Do they all use pretentious words while taking each small detail. Looking down at their nose at the common folk who come and go, while they spend endless hours typing away, trying to look brilliant while they pen the latest version of the new American novel, which will be rejected by the online magazine that does not even pay.

    Or are you better served by saying writers write and often discuss the dynamics of it to those who don't really care. They write it because their written skills are far better than their verbal. It maybe right but any writer would call bullshit on it.

    Let your characters be defined by actions, supported by words. Anything less than that will be label as cheap and unauthentic. That would be as true if the gay characters spoke in the same fashion using all the tired old slang.

    You would define my speech by what I didn't say, far more than what I did say. What I did abject to and what I supported.
     
  11. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    There are more of these initiation videos, but I hope this helps a smidge.
     
  12. Sclavus

    Sclavus Active Member

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    Religious fanaticism is, at its core, the same as political fanaticism, vigilante mob justice--anything where a person suggests an idea, points others to believe in it, and it grows. Any time you have a charismatic leader who makes themselves appear powerful, and weak-minded individuals who--lacking a sense of direction in their own lives--latch on to that leader, you have the makings of fanaticism.

    The difference (in my opinion) between a religious leader who isn't a fanatic and a fanatical leader is in how they treat emotions. The former will encourage discussion, review of evidence, and civil disagreement. The latter will feed off emotion, usually fear and anger.

    Contrast evangelist Billy Graham and Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church. Billy would tell you Hell is a real place, and he doesn't want you to end up there, because God loves you. If you debated him on that point, he would be capable of civil disagreement, and while you and he might not come to an agreement, he would share a message about God's love. Fred Phelps would tell you God hates you for your sin, that you're going to burn in Hell, that the world is evil and should repent or suffer the wrath of God. If you disagreed, he would merely get louder and more emphatic.

    Billy Graham is controversial because of what he believes, but very few have ever accused him of being a fanatic. Fred Phelps is (was, since he's dead) controversial because of how he communicated his message, in addition to what that message was. Billy is a fervent Believer. Fred Phelps was a fanatical asshole who didn't have any empathy to see the perspective of anyone but himself.
     
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  13. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    "Fun" fact: Fred Phelps realized late in his life that his message of hatred and dehumanization had been wrong, and he was excommunicated by his own followers for trying to make them see the light that he did.

    Fanatics talk about how they only hate other people because they love each other, and that there's nothing wrong with hating outsiders because there's nothing with caring about "their own" people... and then they'll eat each other in a heartbeat.

    Fanatics care about loyalty. They don't care about loyalty to anything.
     
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  14. Sclavus

    Sclavus Active Member

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    I didn't know that. I know they've had several members leave.
     
  15. Aled James Taylor

    Aled James Taylor Contributor Contributor

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    From my experience of fundamentalists, they would not recognise their own attitude as 'hate'. They would instead, think of it as 'righteous anger'. This wording is important. 'Hate' in associated with sin whereas 'righteous anger' can be thought of as entirely good and wholesome and something to admire and aspire to. For example, they would not perceive Christians as hating gays. They would perceive Christians as being righteously angry at a society that promotes sin and in doing so opposes God and all that is good. They would perceive any accommodation made for gay people as an oppressive persecution of Christians as, in their minds, it would be 'letting the devil in'. Some of these people think of themselves as engaged in 'spiritual warfare' where prayers are weapons against evil. Think of a medieval fantasy adventure where there are wizards and witches and magic spells and curses everywhere and you'll get some idea of the mindset of these people.
     
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  16. NightEmperor

    NightEmperor New Member

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    Religious people speak like regular humans but they feel the need to sprinkle in their god babble here and there. They will reference god whenever they get the chance because it is their life. How do you expect a person not to talk about an idea that explains/justifies their existence in their eyes?
     
  17. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Senior Member

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    The term 'fanatic' could also be (and was) applied to Christian abolitionists. That's a part of history secularists seem to forget.
     
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  18. Maddox

    Maddox New Member

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    As a lifelong churchgoer, I would say that 95% of Christians talk like normal people 95% of the time, but we definitely sprinkle in "Christianese" every now and again, especially in our own groups. (Google Christianese for some examples although be mindful of phrases that are modern. ) It's usually more in bursts and in general, the more serious a matter is, the more religious language is used.
    I think it would be interesting and realistic to have the disingenuous character use the most religious language. Sometimes lukewarm Christians use more religious language to appear genuine.
    You should also try to read religious writings from the time period and ALWAYS capitalize He/Him when referring to God or Jesus.
     

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