The Point of View questions thread

Discussion in 'Point of View, and Voice' started by SB108, Jul 8, 2007.

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  1. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Think of writing it similar to the way your character would tell it. It's him. It's his story. He knows how to tell it. Listen. And write.
     
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  2. HappyPandaGamer

    HappyPandaGamer New Member

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    That's what I've been doing so far. He's angry and aggorant, so it's been a fun ride so far. Just need advice for describing things and all that jazz.
     
  3. beehoney

    beehoney Member

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    Hello Writing-Community,


    I think—and the most will (maybe) agree—that to write in the first person is hard. But it’s one of the best ways to let the reader know how the character feels. I mean you can describe it without to bore the reader.

    Like I said it’s hard for me too.

    So, how can I/the reader of this topic train my/his/her skills in 1st person? That means: How can I/He/she write (for a longer time) in my/his/her characters voice without to sound like me/him/her? Etc.


    Have you good tips,

    beehoney
     
  4. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    I don't think first is inherently better at letting the reader know how the character feels. The only difference between deep first and deep third is the pronouns, and same with distant first and distant third. Deep third will get readers much closer to the character than distant first.

    Your question is really about developing character voice, which is applicable to every 'person.' The only way I can do that is to start writing - I can't create voice in an abstract way.
     
  5. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

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    Writing in first is easiest for me, and third is hardest. Here's why: I've kept journals all my life, which are written in first.

    So, that's the tip: keep a journal every day.

    Edited to add: The form of my journals is as if I'm writing a letter to someone. It's much easier that way. I named the phantom "letter recipient" of my journal years ago , so all the entries begin, "Dear [name],"
     
  6. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    I feel like I've had an easier time developing voice in first person. Sometimes I feel stilted in third, like my voice is vanilla. First, it is easier for me to get into the character. I'm trying hard to develop voice in third.
     
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  7. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

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    Me too @John Calligan, me too! I want to get it, so my current WIP is in third, but man is it ever an uphill journey!
     
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  8. Jupie

    Jupie Senior Member

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    One piece of advice I was given (on this forum) was to keep track of how many pronouns I used. Even though you do this with third person as well it's somehow trickier I find with first. It's very easy to litter your text with 'I or 'me' and not even realise. Of course, you can't get away with not using them, and trying too hard to avoid them isn't good either because it doesn't look right if you're deliberately trying to bypass them in some way.

    I read a number of differing articles on this and I decided to just go with what felt right. In my opinion the reader hardly notices them and they expect them so long as they don't become too excessive. Also, everybody disagrees on the subject. One person felt too many makes the narrator too selfish and indulgent, another felt the voice sounded more natural and intimate. You don't want to be dropping unnecessary pronouns in for most cases, but you want it to feel personal and a lot of good books use pronouns generously.
     
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  9. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I'm with you guys. First is just more natural for me. That doesn't mean I never write in third. My last short story was in third, but my novel-in-progess is in first. I went with first because I wanted to make things easier on myself as a writer. Writing a novel is hard enough. I think you can get good at both, but I also believe one is always going to be easier than the other.
     
  10. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    It's a matter of personal preference. Pretty much anything you can do in First, you can do in Third, limited. You can even make Third, limited, more personal my mixing in the thoughts of the POV character.

    For me, the most useful application of First is when I want/need the character to be an unreliable narrator.
     
  11. sprirj

    sprirj Senior Member

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    Become that character, writing 1st person is no harder than listening to your own thoughts
     
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  12. Senko

    Senko Member

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    In 1st person, as the character itself is telling the story, you get a sense of truth that may not be as strong using 3rd person. You may want to take advantage of that.

    Be the way, and this may be something to discuss in a separate post, I have the impression that 1st. person POV is being used more frecuently in recent years than before.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
  13. Senko

    Senko Member

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    I have the impression that more authors are writing their novels in 1st. person POV than it was done before (maybe 5? or 10 years before?). The fact that picking some random books in book stores and finding that many of them are written in 1st. person POV makes me think so.

    However, I'm not sure if that is the case.

    Does any of you get the same impression? And, if so, can you think of a reason for that change?
     
  14. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    FWIW, my impression is that many aspiring writers, as represented on this site, may be using 1st person. And that may well be due to the erroneous assumption that many novice writers make that 1st person is the only or best way to place the reader in the shoes of the character. I say "erroneous" because that can just as easily be done in 3rd person, limited.

    But, based on what I've been reading in the past few years, I would say, no, there doesn't seem to be a sudden spike in 1st person usage. In fact, the only books I've read this year in 1st person have been memoirs. No works of fiction. Not a statistically valid sampling, just an impression.
     
  15. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I think there's been a big YA boom in the last decade or so, and a lot of YA is 1st person, so... that may be a factor?
     
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  16. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Well, I don't know that I'd go that far. There still needs to be structure, writing technique, etc....
     
  17. raine_d

    raine_d Active Member

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    Voice is even more important in 1st person, I think, because the POV's mental voice should flavour all of the narrative (it's not just that you have to strictly stick to what they see and know, but also how they react and think about it - you might think up a lovely description but have to drop it because that's not the way that character would describe it in their head...)

    When you have a character with an entertaining mental POV, it can be a thing of beauty and a joy forever (think Bertie Wooster :)
     
  18. TWErvin2

    TWErvin2 Contributor Contributor

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    That has been my experience.

    However, 1st person POV had been evident in the past several decades. Some of it may depend on the genre, and also on the particular author. In fantasy, for example, Steven Brust has used it with his Vlad Taltos series, but not with every novel he's written. The same can be said of Roger Zelazny. Kevin Hearn's Iron Druid Chronicles are in first person POV, but I believe his latest release, A Plague of Giants, utilizes third person POV.

    That said, I tend to enjoy novels written in first person POV, and have read a lot recently.

    I one way to determine if it is a trend would be to go to the local bookstore and examine the new releases and do a sort of tally. While it would be limited sample, it might give an idea as to a possible trend.
     
  19. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Could be. I don't read YA, so I wouldn't have seen it. As I said, it wasn't a statistical sampling.
     
  20. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    It's probably just coincidence - you've happened to pick up more books in first person. Probably combined with confirmation bias, and maybe also your choice of genre (as mentioned, YA is big on 1st person).

    I would place a large bet that 3rd is by far the most common person in adult fiction.
     
  21. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    I'd argue very strongly that 1st person is on the increase. It's something I've very much noticed.

    As for the reason, it could be the YA thing, but these aren't the books I grab from the shelves when in book stores, so I suspect it's not the answer.

    There does seem to be more and more 'new' authors being published these days, and I suspect fledgling writers choose a 1st person POV because it's easier to relate to as a writer. I think when writing 'I opened the door,' as opposed to 'He opened the door,' the writer can put themselves in the character's shoes so much easier, because you're essentially relating events that happened to 'you' rather than a 3rd party. And before anyone jumps down my throat, yes, I do realise a first-person protagonist is still a character, but I relate a first-person narrative, to a director casting himself as the lead in his film.

    All guesswork, of course, but yes, I too have noticed the increase.
     
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  22. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I haven't noticed this at all. in fact, I would say that most novels I've read recently have been in third. I think it's pretty hard to make a generalization like this. And, in the end, I'm not sure how good it is to chase trends anyway.
     
  23. jim onion

    jim onion New Member

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    I find it much easier to relate to my main characters when utilizing first person. It's easier for me to "get in their head". I'm struggling to figure out why this is.

    The writing process seems to flow more easily overall if I'm writing in first person than in third person (and I'd argue my writing is better when using first person). My reasoning behind this is that in conversation we tend to relate stories about ourselves to others, and in school from the very beginning we're taught to write about personal experiences and about *our* opinions. Is this perhaps why it comes more naturally for me?

    How can one overcome difficulty writing third person, or even third person limited?

    Perhaps a issue that ties in with this: what are the advantages / disadvantages of writing in third person, as opposed to first person? I suppose it would be helpful to know *why* I'm choosing a POV, and how I can use it as a tool to serve my writing and open up new possibilities.

    Any writing books one might recommend on the topic? I'm already going out of my way to read fiction in third-person, but sometimes it's helpful to read a cold analysis.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  24. Senko

    Senko Member

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    I appreciate all of your comments.
    They all make sense to me. In fact, as some of you have pointed out, it would be very hard to tell.
    Maybe I got that impression because I was picking from some very narrow group of genres.
     
  25. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    If the POV is the same 'depth' in first and third, literally the only difference is the pronouns. Replace all the Is with she or he and it will read the same. Take the opening passage of Rebecca:

    Last night I dreamt I went to Manderley again. It seemed to me I stood by the iron gate leading to the drive, and for a while I could not enter, for the way was barred to me. There was a padlock and a chain upon the gate. I called in my dream to the lodge-keeper, and had no answer, and peering closer through the rusted spokes of the gate I saw that the lodge was uninhabited. No smoke came from the chimney, and the little lattice windows gaped forlorn. Then, like all dreamers, I was possessed of a sudden with supernatural powers and passed like a spirit through the barrier before me.

    Last night she dreamt she went to Manderley again. It seemed to her she stood by the iron gate leading to the drive, and for a while she could not enter, for the way was barred to her. There was a padlock and a chain upon the gate. She called in her dream to the lodge-keeper, and had no answer, and peering closer through the rusted spokes of the gate she saw that the lodge was uninhabited. No smoke came from the chimney, and the little lattice windows gaped forlorn. Then, like all dreamers, she was possessed of a sudden with supernatural powers and passed like a spirit through the barrier before her.


    The depth of POV makes a much bigger difference than the person. Omniscient is very hard to pull off without headhopping or confusion, and has been out of fashion for a while anyway. Deep, limited POV is pretty ubiquitous in most genres (sci-fi is an exception).

    For now, I would write how you feel comfortable but just switch up the pronouns - after a while it should come as naturally as writing I and me.
     

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