How much can you realistically make e-publishing?

Discussion in 'Electronic Publishing' started by Ursa, Jun 15, 2015.

  1. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    When E L Fudge got picked up by the publisher, the price of her ebooks went to $18 a piece.
    My ex spent a chunk of change on them back then. I sure did not get $18 worth of read out
    of the first one, and was highly sure I would not get that much out of the other two.

    What seems to be a decent way to make any profit is to write long series, and build a following.
     
  2. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    I'm not sure what you mean by that - publishers set the prices of their eBooks in exactly the same way as self-publishers do. Publishers don't sell books for 0.99 because they've invested a lot of money in them. It's nothing to do with relationships with Amazon and in both cases, Amazon doesn't decide the price.
     
  3. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    I have been very satisfied with self publishing with good sales and, for E&D, excellent ranking on Amazon. But publishing is only the first part. If you self publish, you must also self-market, and many authors fail to follow through with this. If a tree falls in the forest, and no one hears it, did it make a sound? If the best novel ever written is listed on Amazon, and no one knows it is there, will anyone ever read it?

    CreateSpace is ridiculously easy to use, just copy your roughly-formatted manuscript and paste it into their Word template for the book size you selected, job done, funky margins taken care of. Go through for minor details, fancy header footers, etc, graphics alignment, etc. Go to Amazon and look inside E&D (full title below). That took about a week, most of which was spent tweaking the 20 or so internal graphics to make sure they were readable, the right size and position, etc. That was my second book, CFM being the first. CS will then take you to KDP to publish your e-book, and provide you a Kindle-ready Word doc and cover ready for upload or for intermediate editing... I get rid of copyright page and everything else so the Kindle version goes straight to text. From the time you think your paperback version is ready to go in CS layout, to on line in Amazon, is one hour of your time, then about 24 hours, waiting for them to review your work. CS also has very responsive and profession telephone tech support (KDP does not).

    Cautionary note! Do not rush to publish! Make sure your story is excruciatingly edited. If you are not sick of looking at it one more time, you are not done! You will never get a second chance to make a good first impression. Make sure you order a proof paper copy before launch. However, if you discover a typo or typos in your book after publishing, no matter. Just upload a new interior. I did that about three times in each book. No harm, no foul. Since this is print-on-demand, there are no stacks of already printed paper copies, except for those you may have already ordered. You can order as many personal copies as you like at production cost plus shipping, at any time, to any address, to preposition for book signings or as gifts.

    As to the wide range in Amazon ePub pricing, Amazon's relationship with traditional publishers forces those to charge much more more for eBooks, typically $9.99 to $12.99 or more, while self-publishers can go as low as $0.99.
     
  4. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    I am having trouble quoting messages with out creating dupes, @Tenderiser, so in answer to your question

    "Revenue is down in ebooks because Amazon, using their mercantile might, has been aggressively selling paperbacks and hardbacks after publishers took away their power to control ebook pricing. Now ebook prices are way up and print prices are way down, a situation that eats into the publishers’ physical distribution models and guts their ebook sales." ... "“Over the past few years the US e-book market has decreased by over 24% and print sales are on the rise. The primary reason for this is due to Amazon not being able to set the digital price anymore, the publishers are doing that,” wrote industry observer Michael Kozlowski. “This has led to an average increase of $5.00 per title and many people find that paying $15.00 for a Kindle book, is too expensive.”"

    https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/30/print-and-ebook-revenue-down-as-amazon-slashes-prices/

    I can find more info, but I have seen through the journals, posts and blogs that this is true. Basically, Amazon takes a cut on the e-book and the publisher must take his cut also.
     
  5. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    Yes... but publishers can't charge 0.99 for a book because they invest too much money in it, not because of their relationship with Amazon.
     
  6. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    Also

    A May 2016 look at Big Five ebook pricing
    June 2nd, 2016 | Data Guy

    In May, the ebook prices of the Big Five’s most-heavily-promoted frontlist launches were still largely in the $12.99$14.99 range. But once you move past that visible tip of the iceberg, a broader look at the prices of all 157,000 Big Five ebooks in our May dataset revealed a significant shift.

    The average price of a Big Five ebook had dropped from $10.31 in January 2016 to $8.67 in May 2016. This definitely caught our eye.

    http://authorearnings.com/big-five-may-2016-ebook-pricing/
     
  7. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    Don't trust anything you read on Author Earnings - their data has been pretty thoroughly debunked, and they have a firm agenda. :)
     
  8. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    This isn't the difference between Amazon or not Amazon, it's the difference between a profit-making business and a hobby and, one level up, a single proprieter who can pay himself as little as he wants and a business with employees that have to get paid.

    There's a tradition among perfume freaks of decants, where a person who can't afford a hundred-dollar bottle would buy the bottle and then divide it up among a bunch of little bottles, and sell those little bottles pretty much at the cost of the fraction of the perfume, plus bottle, plus shipping. So a tenth of the hundred dollar bottle might cost you thirteen dollars.

    Then some folks realized that, hey, there's enough demand here for a business, and so they started businesses. Those decants cost much, much more--a tenth of the hundred dollar bottle might cost you thirty-five dollars. And there was an angry outcry about gouging and profiteering.

    But it wasn't gouging and profiteering, it was business. The decant seller was no longer just looking to break even; they wanted to make a profit on time and effort and risk, and they needed to cover spoilage and storage and paying taxes and refunds for complaints and advertising and the website. When you ramp up from selling portions of the hundred-dollar bottle of Chanel No. 19 extrait that you begged a friend to grab during her trip in Paris, to storing twenty thousand dollars' worth of perfume in special refrigerators in your home and flying to Paris to buy more, your prices are going to change.

    (I made up the refrigerators. But at a minimum, I'd bet that decanters keep their storage spaces really well air conditioned.)
     
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  9. MDUwnct

    MDUwnct Member

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    LOL I passed that stage back around July of this year. Originally wrote the series as one massive Word .doc back in 2001, left it in a folder on the computer, transferred it to three "new computers as I upgraded over the years, tweaked a little here and there. Last July started to get serious and cut it up into five books, so far. (Story is nowhere near an end.) Fleshed out, added details, cleaned writing, grammar, spelling errors and have edited all five to an extent. Book one, however has been done to death, I am sick of the damned thing. Edited cover to cover by hand a few times, imported to Hemingway for editing a couple of times, edited by hand some more, then imported to ProWritingAid to clean up everything I missed and then edited by hand and re-imported to PWA for final clean up. It is in the hands of a few beta readers now, and I am searching for more beta readers, agents and publishing information. When betas send it back I expect to do one more hand edit and a PWA to correct my atrocious addictions to a few bad writing habits and then Is submission time. At which point either book two starts the same grueling 20+ cover to cover edit process, or i take a break and finish book five and then start editing book two while I wait for word from agents and publishing houses. If they fall through, which I suspect they will for my weird niche, then I can start looking into cover art (already have an artist in min) and begin the glorious self-publishing journey! ;)
     
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  10. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    Well, well-done! That sounds so much like my journey, it is eerie. I got about a third of the way through, got some discouraging comments, and picked up a night job doing open source intel after 9/11 that ate up all of my writing time after the day job. Like yours, it languished on multiple computers until the night job ended in 2013 and I thought maybe this could be worth finishing. So good luck too you, you have done all the right things, keep the faith. The traditional route can be discouraging, but breakthroughs are possible. If you go the self-published route, consider Fiona Jayde at fionajaydemedia.com. She did the cover for E&D at a bargain price, and also one for my wife @K McIntyre 's Parham's Mill, both awesome covers that get lots of comments. Tell her I sent you, and see if she will give you a discount. I don't get a finder's fee, BTW. Just super pleased with her work. Apparently she just got interviewed on USAToday for her graphic design work, so good progress for a twenty-something stay-at-home mom.

    upload_2017-11-16_15-51-16.jpeg

    [​IMG]
     
  11. K McIntyre

    K McIntyre Active Member

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    I agree with @Lew. Fiona Jayde does good work! Not very expensive either. Good luck to you!
     
  12. TaylorkoleDOTcom

    TaylorkoleDOTcom Member

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    I just started. I put my first novel on my site tomorrow, but I have a short story on Amazon. I spend about three hours a day trying to get someone to read story for free.
    It's been 14 days, I've sold 3 copies at 35 cents take home in that time.
    Today I received my first stranger high praise review. I'm ecstatic.
    Erasing the $1200 I spent to get setup, I'm making, what 3 cents an hour!
     
  13. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    @TaylorkoleDOTcom, good job you are off to a start. Like I said, don't but that Maserati just yet!
     
  14. The Kindle king

    The Kindle king Banned

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    The amount of royalties you get depends pretty much on the type of marketing and exposure you give your book, especially if you are unknown.
    The quickest way is to build a following in groups and forums like this, but also a marketing budget. Using Amazon AMS is a great place to start.
     
  15. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    What makes you say that? I'd think joining writing groups would result in a tiny number of sales. I know there's a phenomenon on the Kindle boards and on Twitter of self-published authors selling to each other, but I don't think it does a lot for them.
     
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  16. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Yep - the only exception might be if you were writing for authors - but even then you'd need to do a shedload more marketing than just joining some fora
     
  17. TaylorkoleDOTcom

    TaylorkoleDOTcom Member

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    I agree but I also fear I'm wrong. In betting, if I compose good stories written well I'll attract readers, not incestuous writer circles who buy each others books and never read. Again, I could be wrong and need to jump in with "the family. "
     
  18. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    I think writing communities can have a lot of value - I know I wouldn't want to do this without other writery people to talk to - but I don't think they make much of a difference to sales. Not unless you can get JK Rowling to write you a glowing recommendation to put on the front cover, anyway. :)
     
  19. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Really ? What money are publishers investing that indies aren't ? Print costs should be lower for a publisher, as should cover art and editting... I can't remember the last time I saw any serious advertising for anyone who isn't a name author (and anyway indies have advert costs too)

    Publishers don't charge low because

    a) they can get away with not doing , and
    b) They have salaries and shareholders etc to pay on top of the authors share
     
  20. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    You mean publishers rather than self-publishers, right?

    And, really? They're paying editors, designers, artists, marketers, accountants, lawyers. (Why would a professional editor on a salary or a professional artist with a decent track record have a lower cost? Huh?) They're paying for land and property and heat and electricity that is devoted to the books, rather than doing the work in a stray part of a home that already has someone living in it.

    And they have to make that money back, on at least enough books to make it possible to stay in business, while most self publishers are publishing at a loss.

    Sure, each individual unit, after all that expense is done, may not cost them more. Have you seen West Wing?

    Toby: The pills cost 'em four cents a unit to make.
    Josh: You know that's not true. The second pill cost 'em four cents; the first pill cost 'em four hundred million dollars.


    Preparing the book costs money, and those are costs that need to be earned back.
     
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  21. Devlin Blake-Novel Coach

    Devlin Blake-Novel Coach New Member

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    Well, I make a few hundred a month off my books but it's mostly the non-fiction books that make it. (though I also have out several novels.) The truth is, if you're looking for a way to make money, there are easier, and less heartbreaking ways to do it. Please don't publish a fiction ebook with the intent to 'make money'.

    Can you?

    Sure.

    But it usually takes strategy, a 'write to market approach' and and about 20 books, split up among several series.

    Do you have it in you to do that?
     
  22. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Actually I do - but the stats don't bear that out at all , often self pub authors start to make money around book 3 of a series. Also write to market is a terrible idea, if you try to force yourselff to write in a genre just because its popular your books will suck
     
  23. NigeTheHat

    NigeTheHat Contributor Contributor

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    You keep mentioning these stats - do you have a copy of them anywhere?

    Writing to market is something you have to learn to do, IMO. You want to make money, you create something that's going to sell. That's true in literally every other business, I see no reason it'd be different in writing.
     
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  24. Devlin Blake-Novel Coach

    Devlin Blake-Novel Coach New Member

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    I don't do it myself to be honest. I write about what I want. BUT, that's not what 'write to market' means. 50 shades of gray was 'write to market'. Basically, James figured out what about Twilight people liked and based a book series on it sans vampires. (because it wasn't really about the vampires.) Every genre has tropes. Some are more ingrained than others. (example romance =happy ending, ALWAYS) readers like tropes because it tells them what to expect. When you write a story without making use of established and popular tropes, it can still sell, but not to the same people who want the tropes. That's what write to market means.
     
  25. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    As I said look on the Alli website (that the alliance of independent authors - those that don't like the term independent will have to live with it) .... There's a difference between creating something that's going to sell and radically changing what you do .... imo it's more about being realistic about what you do... if you're a poet then frankly you are never going to make a serious amount from your writing unless you are very lucky ... that doesn't mean you should start writing genre romance or genre thriller or sexy vampires or whatever just because you think it will sell, as if your heart isn't in it its likely to suck.

    Personally I write action adventure/thriller - which is a reasonably marketable genre anyway , but if say Sweet Romance was the massive break out of the year I wouldn't be able to write a sweet romance that was any good.

    In the case of 50 shades James was already writing twi mom fanfic stuff so it wasn't a big departure to write something she knew twi moms would like
     

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