1. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Off of

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by OurJud, Nov 18, 2017.

    I've asked this before and at the time the response was almost universally that most here had not noticed people saying/writing it, which quite frankly flabbergasted me.

    I have to add also, that it's very common among the Americans. Is this an accepted expression in the USA?

    For context, the 'of' is simply redundant, as in: 'I got off of the bus.'
     
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  2. NoGoodNobu

    NoGoodNobu Contributor Contributor

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    From my neck of the woods at least (West Coast/Southern California), yes, that is a incredibly common.

    It's actually more unusual to hear someone just go "I got off the bus" without the of.

    Now, this might just be me now overthinking it, but without the superfluous of it actually sounds like the bus is being slightly more stressed, or else the act/need to get off of it.

    Like I'd be more likely to say:

    "So I was going to visit my uncle when I realised the bus went five miles east so that I'd actually have to backtrack, so I got off of the bus next stop and arranged for an uber instead."

    &

    "So there was this creepy dude sitting in the row just behind me. If it wasn't unsettling enough that he breathed through his mouth in a stereotypical horror flick's killer-silent-on-the-phone sort of way, I swear I could feel him every now again play with bits of my hair. When he finally did start to talk to me, he pointedly asked me where I was headed this time of night and if there was anyone waiting there for me. That's when I officially nope'd out. Next stop, I hightailed it off that bus & sprinted to the first well lit commercial street before I dared stop to catch my breath & check over my shoulder he hadn't followed me."


    Edit: On the other hand, while that is how I consciously say it aloud (although the of is quickly run together with off so that it sounds more like off'v) it was actually unnatural to type off of in writing. My instinct is to ommit of even if it would be present while speaking the same sentence. I had to consciously & intentionally add in of where I naturally would speak it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
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  3. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    Have lived in both upstate NY and Wisconsin and I agree with the above.
     
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  4. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    Well at least I've got a couple of people agreeing it's a thing.
     
  5. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    Just out of curiosity, would you say, "I got out of the car" or "I got out the car"? Because I feel like of has the same function in both of those sentences, and someone in America saying "I got out the car" would be very odd indeed.
     
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  6. NoGoodNobu

    NoGoodNobu Contributor Contributor

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    So I googled, and someone posted a response here https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/619/how-can-i-explain-to-people-that-the-phrase-off-of-is-grammatically-incorrect that the Oxford English Dictionary shows off of is at least 500 years old with the following documented instances:

    Unfortunately I do not have the OED handy to verify, but seems legit.
     
  7. Seven Crowns

    Seven Crowns Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    Chicago Manual is pretty emphatic on this.

    5.250 Good Usage vs Common Usage

    off: Never put of after this word. (We got off the bus.)​

    They don't explain it though. I think (here's where I get in trouble) that this is the reason.

    You have 5 types of prepositions: simple, double, compound, participial, and phrasal.
    • Simple: you already know these - - - in, by, on, out
    • Double: used to be two words, now they're one - - - onto, into, inside
    • Compound: still two words - - - out of, because of, thanks to . . .
    • Participial: most of these of -INGs, but not all - - - considering, given, counting, during
    • Phrasal: phrases, like it says - - - as far as, on account of, on top of
    The compound prepositions have a unique meaning. If you drop part of a compound, it doesn't mean the same thing as the single prep.
    I got out the cannon. (simple)
    I got out of the cannon. (double)​

    But, with off of there is no difference, so it's considered a grammar mistake because it's empty padding.
    I got off the cannon. (simple)
    I got off of the cannon. (a double that doesn't exist)​

    But the "mistake" might be correct depending on who is speaking. Spoken dialog is of course fine. Inner dialog too. Narration, if it comes from the MC might be okay. But the authorial voice as narration would normally avoid it.

    Edit: The post above me, which I agree with, is almost entirely dialog examples. So none of those are surprising. They show the proper time for doing it anyway.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
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  8. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    I believe that it 'off' is being used as an adverb in an Idomatic verb (Wake up, step up, get off, fell down etc.)

    'The bus' is being used as a direct object, not as part of a prepositional phrase. (which I imagine in terms of context means very little.)
     
  9. OurJud

    OurJud Contributor Contributor

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    "I got out of the car"

    But you make a good point.
     
  10. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Yeah, I wouldn't write it, but I might say it, and it wouldn't tweak as wrong if I heard someone else say it. (I'm Canadian, not American).

    I think there is a subtle emphasis difference - to me, "I dove off the dock" is an answer to the question "How did you get into the water?" while "I dove off of the dock" is an answer to the question "What did you do when the dock caught on fire?"


    ETA: Do we have the same issues with "on to"? If not, I can see someone using "off of" as a way to balance "on to".

    "He climbed on to the bus, so I got off of the bus."

    (And I'd justify the "on to" above as a subtle distinction from just "on". "He climbed on the bus" could mean he was on the bus and started climbing around on the hand straps. "He climbed on to" makes it clearer to me that he was off the bus and then got on the bus. ETA2: Or on to the bus, if you prefer.

    And ETA3: "on to" vs "onto"... another discussion?

    ETA4: Re-reading the first paragraph - how do I justify the "on" in "caught on fire"? "Caught fire" would mean the same, wouldn't it? But the "on" doesn't feel wrong to me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
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  11. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    'Caught on' is an Idiomatic verb, similar to 'wake up.'
     
  12. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    So I guess "off of" is an idiomatic... whatever "off" is. Adverb? Idiomatic Adverb?

    ETA: Idiomatic Preposition?

    ETA2: If I thought of "caught on" as an idiom, it would mean "got popular", not anything to do with fire...

    ETA3: Just 'cause. ETAs are fun!
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
  13. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    'Get off' is Idiomatic, I mean how do you receive (get) an 'off?'
     
  14. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Isn't that "get" like "git"? Like, "Git movin' lil' doggies"?
     
  15. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    While I don't doubt this is a word, I've never seen it before.
     

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