Questions about plagiarism and copyright

Discussion in 'General Writing' started by blubttrfl, Jul 2, 2007.

  1. kate zold

    kate zold Member

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    Titles themselves are legally safe. That much I know.
     
  2. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Unless it's a trademarked title.
     
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  3. Francis de Aguilar

    Francis de Aguilar Contributor Contributor

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    I have a small scene where someone, for fun, reads from a couple of books lying around a room. here is the passage. Is this allowed or will it cause more trouble than it's worth?

    She had made him laugh out loud at times. A rare thing, he missed that. A woman who it was easy to be with, who didn't need reassurance all the time like his ex-wife in London. She had read passages out of some of the books lying around the cabin, putting on voices.


    "The whole edifice sat in huge leafy grounds the outskirts of the village Kincardine, to the northern side of the Firth of Forth, almost equidistant between Glasgow and Edinburgh." Her Scottish accent squeaky and rather poor as she read from an Ian Rankin novel. She threw that aside and plucked another from the pile, it was Le Carre.

    "There's a tin pavilion on Hampstead Heath. Ten minutes walk from east heath road." For this, she put on her best posh English accent.


    She was pretty and joyous and he liked her a lot.
     
  4. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    It's a really grey area.

    To be completely safe, have the character quote books in the public domain: Dickens, Shakespeare, etc. I think anything published before the 1920s is public domain and free from copyright.
     
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  5. Francis de Aguilar

    Francis de Aguilar Contributor Contributor

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    It would not be in character for such books to be laying around in this setting, but maybe some of the early Russian authors would work.
     
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  6. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    That would be a good option.

    I mean, it's highly likely that you'd be fine including the excerpts in your opening post. But nobody can say for sure because the legal definition of fair use is so woolly, and for such a small part of your book it's probably not worth the (small) risk.
     
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  7. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not a fan of this practice. Even if you want to mention a specific text, I would paraphrase and, of course, give credit by mentioning to book and author. The thing about directly quoting a passage is that your writing will likely be compared to this author's work. Your writing will be on the same page and part of the same story. Who do you think is a better writer? I can't answer that for you, but I sure wouldn't do what you're thinking of. Plus, it can seem a little lazy to just add a chunk of text from someone else's work. Based on the information you gave I just can't see a good enough reason to do something like this.
     
  8. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I agree with the suggestion of finding public domain works. I don't think that this would be fair use.
     
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  9. Francis de Aguilar

    Francis de Aguilar Contributor Contributor

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    Yeah, not worth the trouble really. Not an essential passage. I shall lose it and find another device to achieve the same thing.
     
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  10. KevinMcCormack

    KevinMcCormack Senior Member

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    This is similar to another thread that was asking about use of song lyrics.

    My opinion is the same: copyright issues aside, it feels like there should be a better way.

    When I've confronted this in my own writing, I just invent a 'famous author' or songwriter in the characters' universe and write their fictional prose myself.
     
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  11. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Herman Wouk did this in The Winds of War and War and Remembrance, lacing his prose with periodic excerpts from a fictional history of the war written by a fictional German general, Armin von Roon.
     
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  12. Francis de Aguilar

    Francis de Aguilar Contributor Contributor

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    I have removed this small passage. from the MS now.
     
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  13. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    Best of luck :)

    Fun fact: I found a Public Domain song that I wanted to use, but that I hadn't previously envisioned one of my characters as being a fan of, so I rewrote her to make her into the kind of person who would like the song.

    One of the best writing decisions I've made in my life :D
     
  14. Rag1ngRabb17

    Rag1ngRabb17 Banned

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    I seen in some books where the author uses pictures, not like graphic novels or comic books where the whole page is a cartoon but some random drawings of say a little girl running in a meadow with her dog.

    I seen some with drawings of maps and such to describe the world and what it looks like but its the only picture in it, and then you got the pictures that are used to signify the chapters changing with very very fancy fonts.

    Whats your thoughts and opinions on using some small pictures and drawing in books and would you use it in your book?
     
  15. David Lee

    David Lee Member

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    I might. It would depend upon the type of book being written, who is the target audience... will it pull the reader out of the story? Seeing a few pictures along the way might be cool if not overdone. Again I think it really depends upon the genre or type of fiction you're going for.
     
  16. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Thurber did his own childlike drawings to include with his stories, but they were short stories, mostly humor pieces written for magazines. Michener often included a map or two with his historical novels, but never in the middle of the text. Random House usually placed it right after the title page and copyright info. If you are contemplating publication, I would advise not worrying about it at the moment. Concentrate on a well-written story.

    For starters, you may want to get into the habit of using proper grammar. If your OP is any indication of your writing, you will have a hard time gaining a readership.

    To wit:

    Should be I've seen...

    Should be it's the only... "It's" being a contraction of "it is"...

    Should be and then you have... or, better yet, and then there are...

    Should be What are your thoughts...

    Hope this helps.
     
  17. Don Tarbard

    Don Tarbard New Member

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    Hi,
    I'm writing a guide to cycling safely. There is already a very good, comprehensive book on this but mine is very different in style, and most of its content. However, there are some essential points in the existing book which should be included in mine if it's to be a credible guide. For example, a simple diagram of a bike going around a roundabout and accompanying text to instruct readers to observe the trajectory of traffic before riding around it. Sound advice - I'd like to give the same - but would that be plagiarism?
    Potential points for duplication are mostly simple points like this, so there is little scope for expressing them in original ways. I certainly don't want to pretend that they're my original thoughts - they're mostly common sense anyway, and I disagree with the other author in many other respects. Should I ask the other author's permission to repeat points of safety that he makes, or not?
    I imagine this must happen with recipe books and the like, where tips and advice are concerned.
    Any insights or thoughts gratefully received. Thanks in advance.
    Don
     
  18. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    You certainly can’t take their diagram and wording directly, but I assume you weren’t planning to. You should be able to draw your own diagram and write the same information in your own words.
     
  19. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    As @ChickenFreak said, copyright doesn’t extend to the factual information itself. Someone would be hard pressed to claim copyright in a safety tip and trying to prevent anyone else from giving the same advice. The images will be covered. If you copied the overall layout of the book (order of information, how presented etc.) there is some risk, though less than with the images.

    Also, keep in mind copyright doesn’t protect against independent creation, so if you’ve come up with something on your own, even if someone else had done it and it was subject to copyright, you wouldn’t be infringing.
     
  20. Don Tarbard

    Don Tarbard New Member

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    You're right about my intentions. Thank you.
     
  21. Don Tarbard

    Don Tarbard New Member

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    Thank you so much for this really useful insight. I now know what I'll do...
    Best wishes
     
  22. Mira Meyrink

    Mira Meyrink Banned

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    Hmm, that's tricky 'cause obviously, your book was inspired by HP. It's even dangerous, I'd say, to create a fictional world that is too similar to not simply a random book but a series of novels popular around the world... However, both inspiration and imitation are common in creative spheres and you need to be sharp-witted and fair enough to know what to accuse and what to justify. There's an article I wrote about the similarities in various dystopian books. Huxley's "Brave New World", Orwell's "1984" and other sci-fi works seem to stem from one primary source – Zamyatin's novel "We". https://plagiarismsearch.com/blog/dystopian-literature-plagiarism-or-conscious-imitation.html
    Each writer has "father-authors" as the greatest inspiration, but I would never plagiarize my favorite wordsmith, though I'm sure that my writing can have some common scents of the fictional atmosphere I adore to immerse in.
    I also wonder, why is it so difficult to avoid cliches, why is it so hard to create something original, revolutionary, never-said-before though expressed by the recurrent words?...
     
  23. isaac223

    isaac223 Senior Member

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    For a hot second, everyone was complaining about Cassandra Clare's Magisterium series being a rip-off of Harry Potter but the books still maintain scores of over 4.1/5, except the first which is a 3.95/5, on Goodreads, so take that how you will.
     
  24. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Aside from the Magic School, chosen one that goes to fight an evil long forgotten is almost cliche. Not only is it Harry Potter, but it's also Lord of the Rings, Sword of Shannara, etc., and I don't hear anyone winging about how J.K. Rowling plagiarized them. Just make it your own thing and you should be alright.
     
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  25. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Not entirely true. Characters can be protected by copyright. Depending on how detailed you consider the phrase "plot arc," it might also be subject to copyright. But the three points raised by the OP aren't sufficient in and of themselves to produce a copyright violation imo.
     
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