The Writers Block Thread

Discussion in 'General Writing' started by Sapphire, Sep 21, 2006.

  1. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    Indeed, and looked at in a certain way they are a same thing. In a very functional sense they are both a form of (for want of a better phrase) ideas tasting; of turning a thing around in your head over and over until it clicks into place. In a sense it doesn't matter if you write things down, if you write plans, if you do it all in your head or if you just jump into writing a scene. The function is the same. I think the key is for people to remember that there are different ways of approaching their writing and if they find that they can't quite conceive it the right way by writing an outline they can forget that and more try to see the shape of it in their head, or they can just begin writing it and let it take shape there.

    All have different benefits. Taking notes and making plans helps to have a more cohesive whole to the book (something I have a problem with), because you're looking at it in this very high order way with discrete building blocks of story and you know that they hold together in the right way. Not taking notes but putting a plan in your head means you don't have to perfectly conceive the story or be able to put it entirely into words, you still have the sense of structure but with more freedom to drop in things that feel right to the scene. If you just write stuff out you can get extremely close to the characters and approach it in the sense of how would these characters handle the problems; it gives you a whole lot of freedom to (to paraphrase) twist plots to fit characters not characters to fit plots, but that comes with a cost in terms of overall cohesiveness. None of these are really better or worse, and there's shades throughout them.

    You're right that even though I'm an Ur-Pantser I still have a conception of where things are going even if I don't know exactly what this scene is doing. I know that eventually I want my character to be in a position where, in a few days time, they would be willing to do something dreadful for a good reason and with that in my head that starts to manifest as I write them, things that push them in the right direction, them expressing a change in themselves. I've always had an idea for a book at the start, a conception that I'm writing towards. It's very fuzzy and I don't know how I get there but it's still something, the first ripple in the water. I've never just thought of a character and just continued to write them until adventure ensues. I am certainly much much more into my characters and I let them lead me, but I make characters to go into a story, not a character then create a story (and I think that's the right way to do it by the way).

    For those facing problems with their process I think it's helpful to try a change in approach, a different way of thinking to help get you back into your groove. If you are starting to feel like your plan just isn't working or the characters are coming our flat, even if that's just in your head, then breaking away and letting the characters express themselves and writing a lot of that can I think really help you. Equally if you are really into the characters but today can't quite find a way to get them back in contact with the plot then taking the time to make some notes, to reassure yourself that the blocks fit together, then that can help you overcome that barrier of self-criticism that is so often a problem for writers.

    A change in perspective and a change in thinking I think is enough to get you back into writing and once you get to there I think that you'll be ok.
     
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  2. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I'm a big fan of the Tarot, in terms of what it can teach you about yourself. And this image (from the Rider-Waite deck) is one of my favourites, especially when it comes to writing. It stands for 'a new perspective.' The guy in the picture doesn't look as if he's being tortured. In fact, he looks rather relaxed and enlightened. He's looking at things from a new perspective. I really think that's the key to getting unblocked, no matter what kind of writer's blockage you're experiencing.
    hanged.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
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  3. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    It's one of those Hollywood things you see when someone draws "Death" or "The Hanged Man" and of course that means they are going to die horribly when neither of them mean that. Off the top of my head Death means more "The end of one and the start of another" and the Hanged Man might better be phrased as "The world turn'd upside down". And yes, both of those are much more interesting things to think about, and, if you'll indulge me, the way that most people misconstrue them is actually kinda interesting. We all have a fear of change and uncertainty and that's completely understandable, and I think we all also have a sense of comfort and confidence in who we are and how we do things. Things must be ok right now, we're getting by fine, and even change for the better means being yanked out of your groove and having to find your way again.

    It's quite telling isn't it that we are more ready to see our imminent death in the cards before we see that we might need to change our perspective on the world or that we need to get out and start again?

    It's scary as fuck when the scales fall from your eyes and you see that everything you were so sure was fine just wasn't and you need to build a new life and change yourself if you don't want to just do the same things all over again. But resisting that and pushing away from that need to change is how you end up stuck being unhappy forever. Trust me, that's what I'm doing right now, a whole new life from scratch. I never wanted to believe that I needed to change or that I needed to start over to really be happy. But a fresh perspective is critical to getting past the block and no matter how comfortable it might be going around in circles forever is not good for you, either as a writer or a person.
     
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  4. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    I never quite understood how not outlining is any more "not knowing" than outlining.

    An outline is still writing. These bullet points are being written sequentially, just as if you were to write the actual story.
     
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  5. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    Quite. They are all different ways of doing the same thing. I think the difference is just how you think about and approach them. That's the stuff that I think helps you if you get blocked. Being blocked is all in your head, and just getting outside your normal process (that isn't working right now) and doing what amounts to the same thing in a different way can help you get past it.
     
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  6. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Obviously outlining can help with organization and with fleshing out your story, but there are two less obvious benefits.

    Going from bullet point to bullet point can help you stay focused and prevent your brain from getting overwhelmed by too many options. This as I understand it is the crux of goal setting. To use a classic example, "I want to lose weight" is a bad goal. "I want to lose six pounds by next Friday" is a better goal. "I'm going to eat x amount of healthy meals every day this week and the next, in order to lose six pounds by next Friday," is an even better goal. Baby steps.

    I also think of outlining as a form of surveying. "I have only so many novels I can attempt in a lifetime. Do I want to invest the next year(s) on this particular one? Do I think it might actually work?" A complete outline might provide a better sense of what the novel is really about and if it will hold together.

    Coincidentally, I absolutely think that understanding the landscape of your novel and being confident you want to commit to finishing it, as well has having an easy step by step plan of how to do that, will go a long way toward preventing writer's block.
     
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  7. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I continue to be surprised that going for the highly emotional scene is working for me--it's like watching fabric weave together from many different sides. As the fabric gets woven with fewer huge holes, there is less freedom for the pantsing, but I still don't see my reaction as planning. Instead, I'm going to the part of the story that has the emotional climate that works for me in the moment.

    Yesterday, I assumed that I would continue with a group of events at roughly the three-quarter point of the book, where the scenes are pulling together. But I realized that my emotions just weren't there. To fill the empty space in that part of the fabric, I needed to follow my female protagonist into a vulnerable place reluctantly open to trust. That need for trust didn't happen because I said, "OK, I want her to progress to a point of trust"--it happened because I wrote the scene of distrust, and then I wrote the scene of familiarity and trust and an unlikely relationship. So now I need the stuff in between. But I'm not quite seeing that as a plan, so much as an emotional climate that was produced by several pantsing scenes.

    And yesterday I wasn't in that mood--I was in a frustrated, fed up mood. So I went to the part of the book where a frustrated, fed up mood fits, and wrote a scene there. The scene didn't have a plan or a chosen outcome--it just came from, "OK, there's a scene where she walked away from the betrayal. What happened after that?" And stuff happened. Oddly, and maybe coincidentally and maybe not, that scene in large part turned out to be about vulnerability and trust. Huh. (Though not trust in the betrayer.)

    I'm remembering that there was some author who described her process very approximately this way--writing scenes that fit the emotion of the moment, and fitting them together, and throwing a lot away. I wish I could remember the name, because it would be encouraging to know that at least one successful author uses this method. It might have been Elizabeth Strout. I need to go Google later...
     
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  8. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    That sounds dandy, and I'd like to be able to do it, and someday I may be able to. But right now, I can't seem to care about a story until I have characters in full scene. I Just Don't Care.
     
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  9. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. It takes courage to step away from what you 'know,' but if what you know is bad, there is only one way to change it. You have to actually change it. OR, you can sit around for years waiting for somebody else to change it. But change doesn't come easy to lots of us, and that's for sure. Good luck to you, with your own personal changes. I'm sure, 5 years down the road, you'll be really glad you did.
     
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  10. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    An outline can be part of writing, but it doesn't work for everybody. I think it's because things change when you actually start writing for real, or at least they do for some people. And the other disadvantage, especially if your outline is precise and detailed, is you can be tempted to just connect the dots without much inspiration. You've already done the work. Now you just turn out the product. If another idea strikes you midway, you might be reluctant to undo all that work you did setting the original idea up.

    However, if having a structure to work with is what a particular writer needs, then by all means, do an outline. If it helps people get on track and stay there, it's a great device. I can certainly understand the impulse. It's preplanning, really, and there's nothing wrong with that if you can make it work.

    I've kind of evolved from having no plan at all when I started writing my first novel, to working out a chapter-by-chapter plan (of sorts) for my second one.

    Although other things have got in the way, and I'm not blaming outlining for my dry spell at the moment, I did find when I was actually writing my second novel (I have four chapters finished to first-draft stage) that I was more focused on 'getting there' than the journey itself. I lost the sense of enjoyment that I had experienced writing my first novel. I haven't changed how I see the story, or the story I want to tell, but the telling of it seems flatter, somehow, now that I know most of what is going to happen. I'll see how it works out when I go back to it. Maybe taking a break is exactly what I needed to do. I do have some new ideas that might get me rolling again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
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  11. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Yep. Elizabeth Strout. Here it is in writing:

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/mar/04/elizabeth-strout-my-writing-day

    And I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in this interview/conversation. When I have the minute/second, I'll add it.



    Edited to add: It starts at 30:23.

    Oh! No, the part that most interests me starts at 40:00.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
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  12. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    This is a big discussion we've had on WF and I think it applies to many practices. Let tools help, not restrict. A lot of times I barely look at my outlines. I see them as a sort of safety net.
     
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  13. No-Name Slob

    No-Name Slob Member Supporter Contributor

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    So. I think that after a lot of personal reflection I’ve realized that I do, in fact, have a topic of passionate interest. What has stunted me is that it’s a deeply personal trauma that most people don’t know about which has prevented me entirely from writing on the subject in depth. The problem is that when I try to write about something else as an alternative, my brain gets angry at me for not pursuing the subject I’m most passionate about.

    So I outed myself on Facebook as a rape survivor. And now my extended family is freaking the fuck out, as I knew they would. But I guess I just don’t care.

    Major boundaries to my writing have no been removed, and I can now freely share. Details aren’t necessary, but I feel like, with the secret out, I can now do what I need to do.
     
  14. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    Have yourself a high five and/or hug as is appropriate.

    I know exactly what you mean when you say that some things are just too close to home to write unless you are open about them. Either you do them honestly and without restraint or you can't do them at all. Tiptoeing around the edges just doesn't cut it creatively, but nothing else drives you in the same way. So, well, for what it's worth, I think you did the right thing.
     
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  15. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    The thing is, if you write passionately about some trauma, people are going to suspect it happened to you anyway. So if it did, you might as well open up about it? Of course there will be fallout, but it sounds as if you know you've done the right thing. Once it's out there, you can start to deal with it. Pretending everything is fine—when it's not—can be momentarily helpful, and get you through in the short term; in the long run, trauma will fester and badly affect your life. Best to confront it, however you can.

    Here's the kicker. I've written passionately about trauma that didn't happen to me at all—and many of my readers think it did! So I've had a lot of explaining to do.
     
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  16. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    Yeah, people are weird like that. Personally I find it easier to deal with when it's this way around though. When people read your books and assume things are directly drawn from your own experience the best thing is to answer with "No, I'm just a good writer" and that tends to shut them up. I can't say I haven't courted that kind of thing, I like being the weird guy you wouldn't put anything past, and I have a puckish sense of humor too, I got a kick from naming the older woman who ends up sleeping with her surrogate son after my mother. But there is something about being a guy that makes this stuff less of a big deal. I can write lots of things; I can write heroin and self harm, about physically abusive parents and suicide attempts and people do see that stuff in me (and they are right to) but when I wrote a really traumatic rape scene that's the one thing no-one has ever thought came from my own experience.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
  17. Storm713

    Storm713 Member

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    It seems as though you have lots of advice and recommendations, but I'd just like to throw my ideas into the mush. :) Usually how I deal with it is either giving myself "word sprints" and trying to reach, for example, 100 words in 5 minutes. I usually set these low to feel like I want to continue after finishing the word spring. I also get myself re-interested in the story by imagining/writing scenes with my characters or making moodboards/aesthetics of them. Sometimes I listen to music that reminds me of my novel or a particular scene I will be writing next. I've also found that simply scrolling around the forums or reviewing others' work helps somewhat.
    When I feel like I have no time in my day to write, I set myself time (as in, "write for 30 mins from 6:30 to 7:00" or "from 10-12:00 write ___ words"). I find it helps a little just to set time apart, even if I don't write at all that day. In the end, though, I feel like you just have to push through that writers block and remind yourself that you won't give up on your story.
    Hope this helped somewhat!
     
  18. Jaybee

    Jaybee New Member

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    I know too well about the dreaded 'writer's block. I am an amateur writer and went through all the learning how to do it. But when I took one of my short stories and decided to have a go at making it into a novel, the 'writer's block' disappeared. But I am still a long way from being a published writer. I think you should concentrate on writing something you enjoy............ hope this helps.
     
  19. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    It's certainly important to enjoy what you are writing, but it's important to remember that every project has less than scintillating parts to write and eventually you are going to have to see them through to get to the bits that you enjoy. If you genuinely are working on a project that really doesn't engage you as much as you had hoped then it's ok to go and work on something that better finds your literary G-spot. But equally you need to know when you are working on something that is working for you that requires you to push through something dull to get to the juicy bits. Sometimes you do just need to dig in and work.

    Fiction cannot live by g-spot alone.
     
  20. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Yes and no. In the HFN, I started with the bits that I enjoyed most. And that was quite a variety, because what I enjoyed most at any given time was strongly affected by my mood at the time.

    Right now I imagine the story as a bunch of scraps laid out on a table, and in some areas I'm starting to stitch in the parts of the quilt that tie scraps together. But those parts, which would have been boring if I'd started with them, are now more interesting to me because of their close ties to the enjoyable bits.

    Now, if a person only finds a certain category enjoyable--say, big fights, or big magic scenes, or sex scenes, or whatever--then that general theory isn't going to work. And if they need to write in order, it's really not going to work. But so far it's working for me.
     
  21. The Piper

    The Piper Contributor Contributor

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    I'm sure this is a problem we’ve all faced - it’s certainly not the first time I’ve come across it, and... well, I hope it’s not just me!

    I’ve got the story in my head. Beginning, middle, end, every twist and how it’s revealed, research, plot, characters... everything. In theory, then, the rest should be easy.

    But I can’t start the damn thing. Every time I finish the first chapter, I hate it. The story itself is something I’m proud of and excited for, and I’m just making too many false starts. I’ve tried starting with my main character, I’ve tried starting with a different scene that introduces the character halfway through before leading to the original beginning - I’ve even tried a prologue that seems totally unrelated until later on. Nothing seems to work, and it’s starting to stress me out.

    Has anyone had this problem? How do you get past it? How do you know when you’re there, and it’s finally right?

    I’m giving up, I think. I’d really appreciate some advice - thank you.

    Piper
     
  22. CoyoteKing

    CoyoteKing Good Boi Contributor

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    This is going to sound stupid, but it’s a serious suggestion. You could just skip the first chapter.

    Like... what’s the first interesting event in the story? Skip to that part and start there.
     
  23. Lemie

    Lemie Contributor Contributor

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    Who needs beginnings anyway?

    No, but honestly.
    I say you have two choices.

    1. Write a shitty first chapter and then just move on. In the future you can change or remove it!
    2. Skip to a more exciting part and write from there. Either that end up being your start, or you can go back and write your start when you're more used to the story.

    Some people write from page one and stop at the last one - but you don't have to do that.

    The most important is to keep writing, so if the first page is giving you trouble, move on. You like this story - write a part that excites you just to get started! The rest can wait for now.
     
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  24. CoyoteKing

    CoyoteKing Good Boi Contributor

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    What Lemie said.
     
  25. KevinMcCormack

    KevinMcCormack Senior Member

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    I'm with @CoyoteKing - write the parts that get you excited, and work forward and backward from them. I often start at the climax scene, then write how they got there, and finally some denouement.

    Alternative suggestion... you may not be as dependent on outlines as you expected. Try ignoring the outline and writing a beginning that is not restricted to getting to that particular middle.
     

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