1. CPN

    CPN New Member

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    Need some opinions

    Discussion in 'General Writing' started by CPN, Dec 14, 2017.

    I've been preparing my manuscript for agents over the last few months, ensuring it's as well written as it should be.
    Well, I recently did a critique with an already published author( I'll call him or her DV to keep this anonymous), and DV said that I'm withholding information from the reader by not giving the reader a word for word citation of my protagonist's "bucket list."

    Now, throughout my story my protagonist has only one way to experience his desires. He, throughout the story, references his list when certain developments happen that make him think about what he wishes he could experience. It is clear that after he experiences an item on his list that he "crosses it off"( again, this comes into play with the unique way he's able to do the things he wishes), so I'm a little put off by DV's comment.

    I understand that DV didn't read the story like the average reader since this was a critique, and he or she probably missed the connections that should've been made. But if I were to do as recommended, then the readers would know EXACTLY what my story will contain within the first or second chapter of the book. The surpise(s), other than a few twists, would be ruined.

    Also, I've read plenty of great stories that don't spell out the information to the reader as if they were mere children unable to connect the basic dots. That's the fun part of being the reader: deciphering the author's story, and finding the truth in it.

    I'd love to hear what others think!
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  2. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    Without having read your MS, it's difficult to say for sure, but while I don't know that I'd use the term 'withholding information' I can see how not actually delineating the items on the list could make it seem rather nebulous, and the completion of the items somewhat arbitrary. I'd also argue that the reader's not gonna know exactly what your story will entail from a few list items unless that's one short, dry story! :p

    Are you able to ask for follow-up on this critique? Since this author has already read it and formed that opinion they would be a good one to hash it out with, but I understand that it might not be possible. I'd suggest other beta readers - ones who aren't aware of this previous complaint, because you don't want to prime them.
     
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  3. MusingWordsmith

    MusingWordsmith Shenanigan Master Contributor

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    You need opinions? I've got lots of those!

    Hmmm, would putting it at the back of the book work? Where the reader wouldn't see it till it was over?
     
  4. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    It sounds like DV read your ms with an eye toward advising about its likelihood of publishing success. Since I haven't read your story, my ability to comment is limited.

    Here's the problem I see. If your mc has a "bucket list", it's fair to assume that he knows what's on it*. If the reader is in the mc's shoes, then it's reasonable for the reader to know something that is already important to your mc. If you withhold something the character would have known all along, it feels like a gimmick. Tom Rachman's second novel, The Rise and Fall of Great Powers, was criticized in the NY Times for doing exactly that. I understand you not wanting to give away everything that's to follow in the first couple of chapters. My suggestion (without knowing the circumstances of his having a bucket list at all) would be for him not to have a list, per se, but rather, based on whatever is propelling him forward to seek his various experiences and adventures, as he completes one he discovers a new one. Maybe it's somewhat more daring than the last, possibly it entails more risk. It seems to me this might be a way to build toward a climax. Perhaps with each completed experience, his confidence grows, or his level of ability, or his worldly knowledge. If the reason is a terminal medical condition (just a guess), then his completion of various experiences is that much more dramatic, and provides opportunities for things to go wrong. One of my favorite plays of all time, Moises Kaufman's "33 Variations", does this brilliantly. In it, the mc, a music professor completing a study of Beethoven's 33 Variations, is also suffering from ALS (aka Lou Gehrig's Disease), a serious degenerative condition. So, her "bucket list" has just one item - completion of the paper - and the things that go wrong are the various bodily functions that begin to fail her.

    I hope this at least helps your thinking about your problem.

    *ETA: Of course, you could make it so that the condition that causes him to want to complete a bucket list in the first place is neurological in nature, so that he remembers he has a list (or just some stuff he's always wanted to do) but can't remember everything on it. Just a thought.
     
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  5. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    It sort of reminds me of the inverse relat

    I think you need more than one beta reader. It's tempting to put a lot of stock in what one professional says, but they may just not like your work, or not get it because they came in jaded.

    I have a novel I've been polishing for awhile. Two beta readers gave me almost opposite feedback regarding pacing and plot. The book wasn't satisfying to either of them, but I was glad to get third and forth opinions.
     
  6. KevinMcCormack

    KevinMcCormack Senior Member

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    Yeah, I'm thinking you may benefit from another opinion, too.

    I agree with EdFromNY's point that if the withheld information is material and revealed in a contrived or convenient way, then it's a dissatisfying gimmick. We're a century after Agatha Christie's Murder of Roger Ackroyd where the narrator turns out to be the murderer, for example. Innovative at the time, but today that would just be an eye roller.

    However, it sounds like readers knowing the entire bucket list is not all that material. I'm reminded of the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition. I'm not sure there's a complete list, but as they get written into episodes, the canonical list grows organically. The reason being that the ROA are just a running plot device, and the details are not critical to understanding of the fictional universe or its characters.

    I think Schlock has its own version: Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries. The stories were not weakened by the fact that the reader did not have a complete reference list. Taler eventually completed the list, but the rationale was not to solve problems with the writing.
     
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