A 39-day rejection from One Story with a little note that they liked it and wanted to see more from me. The truth is I sent that story out too soon. I realized this a few days later when I gave it another read through and revised. But I couldn't see a way to easily withdraw it. So, I knew this one was coming. Also received a 142-day form rejection from Cimarron Review. Boo rejections.
I'm not actually counting the days. The website duotrope (which is basically a database of publications and submissions stats) does it all for you. One of my favorite features is that you can view recent responses so you have some idea of when you should hear back, including the average times for an acceptance and the average times for a rejection. I just list the days here so that others submitting short stories might have some idea of a timeframe if they want to send stuff to the same places I do.
Fair enough My approach is that I have a spreadsheet of date submitted and I'd have to go back and actively count the days myself which would be... Well I have enough reasons to drink alone
I don't think revision helps so much - they like the voice, or they don't . I think this is a 'popular fallacy/dilusion from writers, self included - although 600 drafts maybe. Draft 3 for shorts always seems freshest, then we curdle and they see our teeth (Semt on phone)
Revision sure does help me a lot. When I submit things are revised and polished or, really, what's the point? How much work an editor will have to do and how much time that will take does factor in. And from my experience there is another round or two of revision after a story is accepted. But it better be really shiny and clean to start with because there is a hell of a lot of competition out there.
I think mat is right that there's such thing as overworking a manuscript. Leave it alone for a bit, come back with fresh eyes, and polish all the typos out of it for sure - but is draft #39 going to be better than #38? Probably not. And #3 may well be better still.
I think more drafts of a short story can really develop it, and sometimes a story might need well over a dozen drafts. Other times it might come out pretty well formed from the start. I just know that if I stopped at three drafts, I'm not sure I would have sold any short fiction. Maybe that's just me. I have to really work something. I recently sold a story that I've worked on many drafts of and came back to many times over five years. Five years ago no one wanted to buy that story. same with four years and three and so on. It really isn't even the same story it started out as, but I had to start it and I'm glad I didn't give up on this one. I have another story I sold that I would say didn't need too much work from the start. Still way more revision than I really wanted and after several rejections I rewrote the first half of the story. I let it sit for a few days and really polished it. Sent it out again, and I made a killer sale. None of my short stories have ever and I don't know if they would ever sell in three or less drafts. I guess it might have something to do with which markets you are aiming for and just how competitive it is. When a small publication takes a story for free they're expectations probably aren't the same as a publication paying $1k a story. I aim high and revise.
I don't think there's an arbitrary number of drafts where you should stop - the #3 and #38 were more figurative than literal. But editing is like drinking: there's a point at which it's wise to stop, and we're not always in the best position to know when that is.
I definitely agree with this. There's things that you can change every time you read through your manuscript; that you can end up changing back and forth and back and forth without even realizing it. Just every time that you read past it you think "Hmm maybe this way..." and when you've got to that point then it's time to just stop. When you're doing that then you aren't even making progress any more, you're quibbling with yourself over nothing. Some time you do need to just say "Done".
I've drank too much on several occasions, but I am yet to over edit a piece. I know your numbers weren't literal, but I'm way closer to needing to go over something 38 time than 3. I guess you guys are the lucky ones that can do it in less. I just can't sell something unless I go over it a million times or so.
Oh I still go over things lots of times. Most of that is cutting it to length, but that means just reading through the manuscript over and over and slowly condensing down scenes into smaller and smaller space. But once it's at length and once I've proofed it; that's when I say stop.
[Oh, other posts whilst I was compositioning] I think that's a slightly different point, or point of view. You & I polish manuscripts, sure... ...but I was questioning whether voice & vitality actually improves as seen from the perspective of the university longbeard with his periodical, or in your case, from the Masters & Johnson inc shiny golden tower, New York, New York, baby [dribble] Obviously, you remember 99.8% of other submissions come from morons with pencils, people who visit website forums etc, one must retain aura of superiority, it's his fault if he can't read the damn prose, and on...I mean, really, I'm very old, I've met a lot of people, people with jobs, that kind of thing, mainly idiots. [Deleted boastful section end]
I always have to laugh ... shocked puppypuppet writing masterful things like 'deleted boastful section end.' Dribble, however, I can believe.
I'm the same. I think it's worth it, to be honest. My 38th draft is always better than the 3rd, though the number of changes I make between drafts 37 and 38 are nowhere near as many as between 2 and 3.
Just got a 128-day form rejection from Baltimore Review. What else you got for me rejection Gods? Go ahead, give me your best shot. I can take it.
A few more... a 45-day personal rejection from Boulevard, 104-day rejection from The New Yorker and a long enough wait from The Atlantic to no there is no interest there.
Just wondering, @deadrats . Have you been able to see any patterns, when it comes to what you've sold and what you haven't? In other words, do the 'sold' pieces have some element to them that the (yet) unsold ones don't? I think you've got enough sales under your belt now to maybe make a comparison. Any ideas? Would it be general style? Content? Subject matter?
If I only knew... Seriously, it turns out being accepted is way more shocking than being rejected. But it would seem there are a few editors out there that feel I have something to say worth printing. I think it's just writing more and getting better and reading the places known for putting out today's best fiction. Then you start to pay more attention to clarity and strong openings and unique characters and unexpected situations. It really is probably a matter of just getting better more than anything else. And to achieve our true potential I think being prolific and dedicated helps us along. I don't want to disclose where my work has been accepted. None of the stories have come out yet, and I'm not sure about posting these sort of details about myself on the forum, but I have shared my good news with a few of you privately and I thank you all for your support and encouragement. I will say this, if I've noticed any sort of trend, it is that all of my accepted stories have been first person and present tense.
First person and present tense. That's interesting. That's the kind of comparison I meant. Does this influence the way you intend to write in the future at all? Do you feel that's a natural voice for you to use?
I do tend to write a lot in first person present tense. It's kind of like my natural default. I'm writing my novel in first person past tense, but with much the same kind of tone as used in a lot of my short stories if that makes any sense. I seem to do well with the deceptively quiet story.
It can be a good learning experience to write in a voice and tense that's not your usual one. But I don't know ...I think if you find one you're comfortable with, using it allows other things to flow more freely. I always use third person past tense to write fiction. I've tried using first person, but while I can get started fairly well, I can't keep it up. I've never tried writing in present tense in any voice.
