What is the range for characters in young adult novels?

But I don't live in a country without an age of consent do I? I just live somewhere where it's been 16 for a long time and where that's just the accepted age of "Happy Fucking!". And that is the same age as literally the majority of the US now; over 25 states have the same age of consent as we do. So why is there still this massive gut wrenching taboo? I bought my friend Charlotte stockings and suspenders for her sixteenth birthday, at her request. Her dad just laughed when she opened her present in front of him. And yet for you guys you seem to think it's weird that I liked a girl two years younger than me at one point in my life.

 

Right, but where is the line here? Is it ok for a 19 year old to have sex with a 17 year old in a state where the age of consent is 16? Seriously, is it? Is that eye rolly or horrifying and abusive?

 

The wider you make the range, the fuzzier it gets.

I actually suspect that if Americans could wave a magic wand and prevent everyone under 18 from having sex, they would. I don't think that the age of consent being 16 means that they think it's fine; I think that it means that they don't want to make felons of half the teenagers in the country.

18 is a magic number for a lot of measurements of adulthood, so I assume that's part of it. Holding a job without parental permission, signing a contract (including signing a lease), joining the military, in some states (I think?) having a full rather than a "teen" driver's license, graduating from high school (Even if you're not truant after...16, maybe? There's 16 again.) and so on. (Yes, you still can't drink.)

I think that the mechanism behind age of consent being 16 but still disapproving of kids under 18 having sex is (1) sex is an adult activity, (2) 18 is when kids are adults in American society, but (3) how many kids do we want to prosecute?

 

I don't think the evangelicals would be happy with magic, sadly

Our approach is pretty much to say "you're only young once" at least when it comes to sex. The rationale being that kids are going to fuck each other regardless of what anyone says so we may as well just throw condoms at them and also not arrest them. After all; they're stupid horny teenagers who are throbbing with hormones, they aren't going to learn anything from being put on a sex offenders register for touching up their girlfriend.

 

I never said anything like this. I've been in a relationship where the age gap was 11 years. But there's a huge difference between an 11 year old age gap when the parties are 22 and 34, and one where they're 24 and 13. I've been in relationships with people that are 'legal age' but are still too young to be in a relationship and it was a pretty bad time for everyone involved. I'm not saying that all teenagers aren't able to be in a relationship, I'm just saying that literally every frame of reference I have says they are. And just because a relationship is 'consensual,' that doesn't mean you aren't taking advantage of that person. A lot of the relationships I see where the older party is an adult and the younger is still a teen, the only reason the younger party doesn't complain is that they have no understanding or frame of reference to realize that they are being taken advantage of. So yeah, even though it's consensual, there can still be the older predator and the young, naive, prey.

 

Which is funny considering the best parts of the Bible are all about magic.

 

Sorry, you don't get to tell other people they are being taken advantage of. You don't get to call people you don't know sexual predators off the cuff like that. You just don't. You especially don't get to say "Well, it's legal but we all know it's not right..." because that's lynch mob logic. Yes, such relationships can be unhealthy but, well, that's up to them. If no-ones being abused in a sense a cop would understand then I just can't understand why you care. Like, the fact you say "It's consentual..." is where I lose interest. Consent is consent and you don't get to judge people because they are young or May/September or what they do in bed. Consent is what matters here.

I love Charlotte man, she's my oldest friend by a long way. I met her when she was 13/14, my friends sisters friend when I was 15/16. When I had just turned 17 I used to pick her up from school and take her out drinking in her uniform because we both got a kick out of that. When she was 15 she went out with my friend Karl, who was 18. She used to laugh at him because he was worried he'd get in trouble if people found out but neither her parents or his cared. And if you ever want to go tell her she was taken advantage of then she'll be happy to stop by and laugh at you too. And no, that is not every 15 year old and there's a reason why we set the bar a tad higher than that. But you don't get to tell other people you don't know what happened to them. If they say they want to do it you have to take that at face value. And what the fuck kind of feminist are you if you sit at home wondering if a poor little girl is too silly to see what's happening to her.

 

I wasn't calling you a sexual predator, but this whole thing here definitely ticks a few boxes you probably shouldn't want ticked.

 

I don't think you are, it's everyone else you called a sexual predator and/or victim that I'm unhappy about.

Here's what you said:

All of these people who have not complained about anything being untoward that you have presumed are being taken advantage of. These kind of relationships can be abusive, but so can any relationship. And it's up to those people if they are being abused. You don't get to look in and presume. Even if you think someone's being treated badly, it's up to them. If they say they are happy then you don't get to decide for them what's happening to them.

 

Mmhmm. I could tell you plenty of stories. The best one I have is a friend of my ex, back when I first met her. I was 20 going out with a 17 year old at the time, Emma was 17 and going out with a 37 year old who was literally old enough to be her dad. And, well, I didn't like him. At all. He boring. But we all figured that whatever she saw in him it'd burn off pretty soon and didn't say anything. But I went to the same uni as her and I know for a fact they were still together three years later. That this kind of relationship can be abusive doesn't mean it is abusive. That's my point. And it sounds so silly to be getting het up over young lovers in general because some young people get taken advantage of.

And, to be fair, I would be pretty pissed off if anyone I slept with lied about their age to me.

 

It's not presuming when the person is being obviously taken advantage of but can't see it. You can't say that an outside observer has no way of knowing when someone is being taken advantage of. And you're right. I dont get to decide what's happening to a person. Even if that person is a close family member and they're constantly showing up with new bruises, black eyes, and the occasional split lip. It doesn't matter that they've had 4 miscarriages due to physical trauma. Because they say they're happy and everything is consensual and you have no physical evidence that it isn't, there ain't a damn thing you can do. That doesn't mean, however, that you can't try to help them.

 

That's not even close to what we're talking about! You think every younger person in a relationship is showing up with bruises? Bull and shit, sir. I am sorry what's happened to someone close to you, but don't act like that is a reason to start saying "well under 18 is bad". Because, as it turns out, you can get beat by your partner at any age, and yes I know that personally.

To go back to my earlier comment:

The problem isn't age, the problem is abuse.

If someone isn't being abused then why does their age matter?

 

Also:

Seriously? Where in the post you quoted did I indicate that the younger party was female? I purposely tried to leave gender out of it because I'm perfectly aware that men can be dumb victims and women have the capacity to be rapacious predators. You assuming the maligned party was a sad, poor little girl puts more of a question of your feminist credentials than mine (which I never actually claimed to have).

 

I'm not a feminist. I was questioning if you thought you were a feminist for trying help the poor young things who don't know what they're doing that you presume are being abused.

 

And also also...

Seriously, you started this out by saying "Taken advantage of" and then switched that to "being beaten" as if those are the same fucking thing. Remember when I said "if someone isn't being abused in a way a cop would understand..." yeah, that's literally what I meant by that. Abuse is not age related. Abuse is abuse and it's fucking wrong and I've said that all along. We were never talking about abuse. We were talking about nebulous "taking advantage of" because they were the younger party.

 

Age is a problem because most young people have literally no understanding of when they're emotionally abusing people or being emotionally abused and the ramifications thereof. The parts of the brain that tell people this usually don't finish developing until they're 20-25. An older person intentionally going after a younger person is like being sober hitting on the drunk chick at the bar because her inhibitions are lowered. In the end you'd be taking advantage of her; abusing her. If you were both drunk it's a little better because neither one of you could comprehend that you probably shouldn't. If you like her for other reasons, then it really shouldn't be a problem to wait for her to sober up so she can make an informed decision about it. That's just being a decent human. And trust me, you should talk to a cop about abuse. They have a deeper understanding of abuse than you would ever want to have. Some of it's illegal, most of it isn't, none of it's right. And it's all kind of like watching someone drowning. No matter who it is you'd be a shitty person to boat on by without at least offering a hand. And yes, I beleive young people are more at risk, which is why I dont' believe that Young Adult should promote pro-drowning lifestyles.

 

This thread is about the age range for YA novels. I think you should stick to that subject, and I get it now. Main characters in YA novels should be 16-18. It's what makes them relatable and closer to the young readers.

 

So why is it OK if you're 18?

Seriously, the way you are taking you make it sound like an older person is literally always raping a younger person and that is bullshit.

Well I dunno man, I just got out of a relationship with someone who's been hitting me on and off since she was 17. It's now eleven years later. I know enough man.

I can tell you a thing or two about drowning too dude. I have the scars to prove it. I have to date helped three people out of abusive relationships, including a violent one. Not long ago I offered to fly around the world to try and help someone I thought was in a bad relationship. Don't you dare tell me that I don't care about helping people. Don't you dare.

This started because you said that the problem in Twilight was that Bella is young. I said the problem was because it promotes a pro-drowning lifestyle.

That was my whole point. That I care about abuse, not about age.

And now you stand there and fucking lecture me about how bad I am for not helping people.

My whole fucking point was that I care about helping people that need help, not just people who are young.

 

Um...
You guys, that’s an interesting discussion, but it’s way too offtopic. Sorry, you gotta take it elsewhere now.