How bad of an idea is it for a pantser to write parts of a novel out of order? My fear is that I'm going to end up with too many pieces that don't fit together. I have been writing the story in order and as it comes to me, but then I go back and really edit and polish so I can call a chapter done (for now). I don't have an outline, but I do have some notes. I was really excited about writing the chapter up next chronologically. I got about five pages down then I just wanted to make a few notes for something after that. Those notes turned into 2k words. And now I want to finish that chapter before the other one because it's just where I feel my head is right now. I am not a very organized person. The messier my novel gets, the less likely I am to actually finish it. Why am I skipping ahead? I don't even have an outline so skipping ahead could mean to just about anywhere in the story. I don't really know what I'm doing. I feel like such an imposter.
You sound more like a first-timer to me, so don't worry about it. I also am a pantser, but I generally write linearly, because it is easier for me. If I had some future chapter that really captured me, especially one that I wanted to make sure the preceding threads all lined up with what I want to happen, sure, I'd go ahead and do it. Usually, though, I just keep that future scene in my head, ass the direction for my threads. Just remember, if the threads take you somewhere else, be as willing to change what is in the future in your story as you are to edit the past. I like to relate that Martha Mitchell wrote Gone with the Wind's last chapter first, then everything else in no particular order, so it can be done.
When I wrote out of order earlier this year I still had a somewhat basic structure for my novel. It features a boy who is hired to star in a TV series so there was a natural four sections to the story -- prior to getting hired, getting hired (and his relationship with the director post filming), filming and after filming. It's easier I think when you have some natural points that must be reached when writing out of order as it keeps you focused. Though I do admit -- yup, I overwrote. Not everything has been used. Some ideas were sacrificed in order to write newer ideas during the first draft. Was it a mistake? So far -- Nope. I couldn't get my first draft off the ground any other way. I would go where the story takes you but also allow yourself to think ahead and maybe jot down some structural story points that could keep you from stalling or getting distracted. You don't have to use them but thinking them through allows you always to be one step ahead of your story. So long as you have some ideas in your head as to where you want to take the story and want you want to do with the characters it shouldn't be nothing that can't be fixed in the second draft. I have characters that disappear, one character that appears early and I wait too long to make anything of him -- but I'm okay with this sloppiness, it happens -- It can be fixed.
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with writing out of order. Plenty of people swear by it. However, I could never do it myself (probably). I'm less worried about pieces that don't fit together, and much more worried about warped character development. I start out with my character at its most basic state--I haven't written anything yet, so I haven't really developed the character. So I start writing and pound out five chapters. My character's gone through five chapters of development. Now I skip ahead to the climax, with a character who only has five chapters' worth of development. The character develops further. Now I go back and write chapter six, with a character who's been through the climax. Obviously, in the prose, she hasn't been through the climax yet, but I can't un-write what I've written about her that far ahead. I can delete it, sure, but I can't un-learn what I've discovered about her. And if that discovery doesn't belong in chapter six, I have to now consciously work to subdue it until it's supposed to be revealed. Like I said, plenty of people write out of order, and I'm sure they don't have that issue or are able to work around it. But that's the major reason why I can't do it myself.
First-timer... If you mean I am yet to publish a novel. I've made other attempts. I do want to see this one through and I think it's a more mature story with a more mature style. I guess even writers grow up. LOL. I agree with you and think that writing linear is easier for me too so I don't know what I'm doing. I'm going to try and finish both these chapters quickly so I can get back on track even though I don't really have much in the terms of ideas for what comes next. I still working up to the climax so I'm just kind of planting tension, future tension and off-the-wall ideas that will add up to one hell of a story, maybe?
I don't really have anything in my head. I don't even know how these two chapters are going to turn out. And after that, I really am completely blank. The fear that I am out of ideas is terrifying.
I think like you. That's why I don't know what I'm doing. Perhaps this is just all part of my unconscious plan of sabotage.
How do you keep the story on track if you are making it up as you go and also not writing in order? It sure seems like quite the juggling act and I'm about to drop all the balls. I would love to hear more about how you make this work for you.
When I first started to write fiction in earnest I just sat and started creating, not really knowing where in the world I was going with an idea. I got through one work that way and it never felt right, like it was really disjointed because I didn't put much preplanning into it. After this "prototype" experience, I tried to write a few sketches about the idea, or character descriptions, plot descriptions, and work on a rough outline for how the story would take shape before I started composing it. This really helped because it gave me some much needed direction when I encountered a dead end or a corner I couldn't work my way out of. With writing chapters out of sequence, if you have a rough outline to follow, these random chapters won't seem so random if they fit into the greater schematic of what you want to achieve. Above all, a little preplanning, just like a high school/college essay always helps in the long run. If you're a big picture planner like me, I can't undertake a new project without this approach. Hope this helps, and best of luck.
Luck? OK, it's slightly more than luck, but not all that much. This is the Highly Flavored Novel experiment that I started in the summer. When I started it, my goal was just to Write Fiction. I very consciously decided that I was going write whatever scenes I bleeping well pleased, and that I would deliberately gravitate to the scenes with the highest level of emotion (highly flavored)--for me, not necessarily for the characters. Turns out, getting high emotion into a scene requires that that scene have, or stem from, events. And it usually requires some form of conflict. And those are the building blocks of plot. And so, by focusing on character and emotion, I ended up creating MORE plot than I usually do. My characters usually (Edited to add: That is, BEFORE the change in practice that I'm describing) just drift around saying things. But I created that plot in disconnected fragments. I'm fairly sure that I knew that Male Protagonist had a secret motivation for hiring Female Protagonist fairly early on, but I wrote scenes around the secret before I knew what it was. And when I knew what the secret was, I still didn't know what the motivation was--I wrote a whole lot of scenes before I figured that out. So for each scene, I just created the amount of plot that I needed to drive the scene. For example, I just wrote a scene that belongs early in the novel where he's essentially bailing her out of jail. I know that she was arrested for doing something illegal for him. I know that it's his fault that she got arrested, because the arrangements that he made for someone to look the other way fell through. I know that he feels responsible--she was very slightly injured, and he's going to feel bad about that because he failed in his part, while if he hadn't failed and she'd just landed on the wrong side of the odds, he would just shrug about her injury. (While still paying every penny of the medical treatment.) And I realize now--as I'm writing this post--that that's why I wanted to see the scene. I wanted that knowledge of him to be acted out. But I have no idea what the illegal thing she was doing was. It doesn't matter for the emotion of the scene. If another scene points to what she could have been doing, yay! If not, this one is likely to end in the scrap heap. But it's a little rare for me, at this stage, to have a totally unconnected scene. As more scenes got written, more and more of them linked up to other events, and more of them did start with a known plot reason. And the novel slowly developed a plot spine. Actually, it developed a spine and a lot of extra bristly bits. I just finished tweaking three (I think it's three) subplots to tie them to the main plot line. A fourth will probably just get thrown away, though I'm still looking for an opportunity to slot its scenes back in. And I FINALLY have a dim view to an ending that will be satisfying to me. It may be unsatisfying for a reader. But I'm worrying about that in the second draft. I allow selected balls to drop. Right now, I'm juggling about seventy, and about thirty are in the scrap bucket. (The fact that that adds up to one hundred is pure coincidence.) That is, the main line of the novel right now has about seventy scenes in a somewhat coherent sequence--far more coherent than it was in, say, September--while the "Pieces I'd Like to Keep" folder has about thirty. (There's also "Put Aside", "Fragments or Alternatives", and "Superseded". For me, this process means that I put a LOT of stuff side.) I just moved one of the Pieces into the main line this past weekend, so I have some hope for them. But there are quite a few scenes that were a lot of fun to write, and kept my excitement going, and taught me things about the characters, but will not end up in the novel.
[And so, by focusing on character and emotion, I ended up creating MORE plot than I usually do. My characters usually just drift around saying things.] In response to this, I would ask you, would you like to read a novel where your characters drift around saying things? There has to be a connective thread in your story, something that the reader can latch on to even if you take a detour for a subplot. If your reader is confused, they are likely to pitch it and move on to something else. [I allow selected balls to drop. Right now, I'm juggling about seventy, and about thirty are in the scrap bucket. (The fact that that adds up to one hundred is pure coincidence.) That is, the main line of the novel right now has about seventy scenes in a somewhat coherent sequence--far more coherent than it was in, say, September--while the "Pieces I'd Like to Keep" folder has about thirty. (There's also "Put Aside", "Fragments or Alternatives", and "Superseded". For me, this process means that I put a LOT of stuff side.)] Take it from me, not all of what you initially write (first/second draft) is what will end up in your final draft. Don't write and edit at the same time. Just write. Let it all out on the page and then go back a few days later and assess what you can obviously do without. That begin said, it always helps me to know where I'm going before I sit down and start writing. Even if I just have a direction to go in and let the details take care of themselves during that magic period when you're really engulfed in what you're trying to express.
I also skip ahead, because writing later chapters of the book always give me ideas of what's gonna happen inbetween, so going back to write new chapters and connecting them to the others, I do that all the time. However, I'm not really a pantser. I used to be. Big one! But after too many beginnings, and no middle or endings, I had to learn to make a rough chapter outline with at least a few plot points and some sort of ending to aim for. It was like putting on a scratchy shirt at first, but it was exactly what I needed. That's just me though. Others do fine without a plan, and I say; write it the way you want to. You might end up with an awesome novel, and if you get stuck... Well, most of us get stuck and have to work it out somehow. I think trying out some stuff and finding your process is all part of writing that first novel. The best of luck with it.
You misunderstood or I was unclear. The "drift around saying things" was BEFORE my change in writing habits. Edited to add: That is, this is after the change: And this is before the change: Sorry for un-clarity. I'll edit my post. I'm sure that advice works for you; it doesn't work for me. The polished scene is the primary source of interim satisfaction for me. Taking that away from myself would ensure that I just stop writing. Of course not all of the first-draft stuff will make it in the final draft; that doesn't affect the motivation value of the polished scene. For me. Heck, I enjoy the existence of that "Pieces I'd Like to Keep" folder", in spite of the fact that the vast majority of them will be thrown away.
It works for me. The only thing I've come across now that I'm doing final edits is I have to take a lot out that is repetitive. But it also means I can chose, is it better to have a character reveal this thing important to the story here, or is it better in another chapter?
I hear you, for sure. Some can and do keep it in their heads and it gets straightened out when they start writing. Maybe I can be that good one day, but right now I have to get as much as I can out on the table and rearrange/strike things until they make sense. That's the beauty and appeal of creative writing, it's whatever you want it to be.
For what it's worth, I do this. I've written a few books this way. It actually really works for me, and it has some major benefits. THE PROCESS I have an idea for a story. It's a neat idea. I don't know the entire story, though. I know who the villain is, I know who the main character is, I have some cool ideas about the conflict. I have a lot of cool ideas about things I want to happen: car chases, kiss scenes, sword fights. I know how I want the story to end. So... I just start writing the pieces I know. For example, in the last book I wrote, I wanted it to end with the hero dramatically rescuing his love interest from the bad guys. So guess what? I sat down and wrote the most goddamn dramatic rescue scene I could think of. At this point, I'm not really sure how the love interest got captured, and I don't really care. Then from there, I just kind of move around. I write whatever scene that comes to me that's the most interesting. I'll usually write sections of the book this way. Once I know the love interest gets captured, I naturally start wondering how they got captured, so once I have an idea I'll go write that next. I expand the story outwards. For example, I know they have to fall in love at some point, so how did they fall in love? How did they meet? There's got to be some very cool, interesting thing that happened that drew them together. Sometimes that ties into the plot. Honestly I just write whatever seems the most exciting. I'm a child, I know. But I get a lot of writing done that way. KEEPING IT TOGETHER If you're going to write out of order, it's important that you have an organizational tool like Scrivener. Honestly Scrivener saved my goddamn life. This is a really important part. You need an outline of sorts. I don't know if "outline" is the right word. This is not a complete outline of the entire story from start to finish. This is more like a list of events. The idea here is, you need to keep track of what you're doing. If you know the ending, you need a brief outline of the ending. There's lots of pieces missing, so most of the outline is going to be blank. You fill it in as you go. As you write, you'll see gaps. You'll naturally, okay, if the love interest gets rescued later, obviously they need to get captured at some point. Obviously I need to introduce the bad guys at some point. Obviously they have to have a dramatic first encounter with the heroes. If you have an idea for that scene, you can either just write it down in the outline (a suggestion for something you'll write later) or you can just go ahead and write that chapter. It's like putting together a puzzle. You finish the edges first. You finish it in sections-- the sections that are the easiest and most obvious. If you have two sections that fit together, fit them together. Then fill in the gaps. Check your wordcount occasionally to see where you're at. The story just sort of solidifies as you go. Eventually, you get to the point where you have almost the whole story down. Stitch together chapters. If you come up with a cool new idea for a plot twist, work it in. SO BASICALLY You write the coolest, most exciting parts of your story first. Then later, you fill in the parts you need. You outline the story as you go to keep track of what you're doing. The reason I love this method is because there's zero fat. Every scene in the story is there either because it's necessary or because it's badass. There's no filler. Anyway, long story short, everyone writes differently and you need to do what works for you. You can write a story out of order and also be a pantser. You just need to find a method that works.
Thanks. I finished the chapter that was one ahead of where I'm at in the novel. And I think what you said here is true for me a little that skipping ahead can generate ideas for the part you skipped over. That's kind of where I'm at, but I hope to not make a habit of skipping around. I tried to make an outline for this novel. It was a very loose outline that didn't quite spell out the whole story, but I thought it would help me stay on track. Everything in the outline has already gone into the story and I'm not even halfway done. It's become somewhat of a different story now. I'm still not sure what my overall plan is for this. Yes I do. It's to finish it, publish and win big awards. Oh, the novel... how many times will I try to tackle this beast?
Haha, I hope you finish it and win those awards, how great would that be! Yeah, a lot of the future plot ideas come when I write, so I just add them to the outline, but sometimes I really have to stop writing and figure out the next part of the story. I don't enjoy that bit at all, because I lose that very important momentum, and that's part of why I skip chapters. In an ideal world I'd wanna write the whole thing from start to finish in one straight line, but that's probably never gonna happen. I really wish you the best of luck, and when you finish it; celebrate in a big big way, because finishing a novel is worthy of a fiesta.
Both chapters in question have been written. I feel like it totally works and wouldn't have come out this way if I hadn't done this little detour and then backtracked. I hope I can write the rest in order because this was a little stressful. I'm not sure what comes next at all, but because I'm editing while I go I'm going to go over these 60 pages and really works them. I think I'm in good shape, and than after that I will have some idea of what come next. I still can't believe I pulled this off. I thought when I started writing out of order I was done for. I'm trying really hard, but I also don't want to make things harder for myself. I want to make this work. The farther along I get, the more fearful I am of screwing it up. When I skipped a chapter I really thought it was going to screw things up. Now that there are no gaps or missing pieces I don't think you can tell that they were written out of order.
It sounds like you're having a lot of fun with your story - even though it can be a little stressful at times - and that you have a lot of hope for it. That stuff matters. Keeping an eye out for future plot points while editing your written pages, that sounds like a really good plan. Usually there's a lot of stuff to dig out from what's already planted. And even if you do hit a point where you have to skip something, now you know that it's fixable in post-production (as they say in the movie-biz). Stay with it, and best wishes.
I could never plan the damn high school or college essays, either. You know that thing where they insist you turn in an outline first? I always demanded to know what percentage of the grade that part was because I've never been able to outline. My brain doesn't work that way at all. I have to be in the process to shape the writing. It might have something to do with having a photographic memory, though, In high school and college I could memorize pages of text or thumb through books in my head, turn to the correect page, and "read" it from the book. Conversely, in business, I'm a big picture thinker who sees the end result first, then I work backwards. But those I see in pictures and videos, not words. No two writers are alike, and everyone has different things that trigger creativity and the mechanics of how to put it together. So OP, do what works for you and don't worry about it. If it works for you, it's the right way.
I do both - writing out of order AND linear. Linear if creating my plot. I use to write it down like a kind of exposé. So now I have a grid of scenes and I know where the story gets faster or where the turning points are. Within that grid I move around while I'm writing. Now, if I'm bored or without ideas, then I can say: OK - lets get there another day. Today I rather have some Ideas for another chapter. It's important to keep the flow while writing. And I only have the flow, when (while writing) I can say: Yeah, that's good! That's good. If writing strictly in order, I sooner or later get to the point where the flow stops. Another way to keep the flow is to know your characters. Before writing the first lines, I figure out what my main characters is like. To me it's the most important thing to know what they would do in a certain situation. How do they think? How do they feel? What was their story before they got there.? Then, if you throw them there, things just happen and you only have to write it down. Maybe others get their flow, when writing strictly in order. You have to find out for yourself. It's a quite individual thing I guess.
