1. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2017
    Messages:
    815
    Likes Received:
    508

    Kafka's The Trial

    Discussion in 'Discussion of Published Works' started by Teladan, Dec 24, 2017.

    Hello. I thought I should read The Trial since I finished Kafka's shorter Metamorphosis a while ago. However, it's not quite grabbing me like I thought it would. I'd been aware of the book for a while and I was under the impression it'd be a dark, psychological character study, but it seems to me to be somewhat dry. Not quite sure what I'm supposed to be getting out of it, really. I'm not very far in so that may change. I believe I've just read K.'s first encounter with the officials in the law offices situated in the attic. Does the book gain in speed and interest? It seems a little off to me. It's not the sort of thing I'd usually read to be honest, stories about bureaucracies and law.

    Interested in any thoughts you may have.

    Thank you.
     
  2. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Messages:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    2,026
    The really remarkable part of The Trial is the conceit of it; it's that this whole process is absurd and remote and no-one even tells him what he's on trial for. And that is something really cool. But at the same time... Stories about labyrinthine bureaucracy aren't quite my cup of tea either. It definitely does what it sets out to do but... It's more something you have to appreciate it at the end.
     
    Rosacrvx likes this.
  3. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2017
    Messages:
    815
    Likes Received:
    508
    I've definitely heard a lot about its deeper meaning, but I struggle with some aspects of the writing itself. Not that the language is in any way difficult, I just have almost no experience with the subject with which Kafka is dealing. Let's just say I never thought I'd read a Czech writer's satire on the bewildering complexities of the judicial system. I essentially just picked it up because I knew Kafka was a writer of some reupte and I enjoyed Metamorphosis. It's always good to get out of one's comfort zone, I suppose. I'm not one to just stop a book a quarter or half way through, so I will read it. Thanks for the input.
     
  4. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2017
    Messages:
    815
    Likes Received:
    508
    The problem with the book is that it's not going anywhere. I imagined K. would be thrown in prison and have to answer for various crimes and it'd be gripping, but he's free to go on with his life. Right now, where I am, he's simply talking to Frau Grubach about someone moving into Burstner's room. Where is the plot? Where is the movement? I'm just reading people talking about utterly mundane and uninteresting things that aren't even connected to the story. I hate to say it, but I can't see how this work has gained such repute...
     
  5. Kenosha Kid

    Kenosha Kid Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    83
    One issue lies in your first two sentences. For people who love the novel, where you wrote "problem with", they would write "genius of". The fact that K's judgment, incarceration, execution etc. are always unpredictable, arbitrary futures makes it less like the sort of justice system you and I might be familiar with, and you think that's bad. But in the background of a corrupt totalitarian state, K's experience with the law makes a lot more sense.

    Another, more obvious problem you seem to have is that you've approached one of the most famous works of surrealist literature and still managed to expect a conventional crime story wherein, in your words, "K.would be thrown in prison and have to answer for various crimes and it'd be gripping".

    If you watch Schindler's List as a comedy, it's suddenly a really bad film. Very few jokes, and certainly none to warrant the price of a ticket.
     
    Rosacrvx likes this.
  6. Rosacrvx

    Rosacrvx Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    698
    Likes Received:
    427
    Location:
    Lisbon, Portugal
    I'm glad people have already answered better than I possibly could. In Portuguese, we call this book The Process. I was even surprised at first when I read "The Trial", I didn't know the English title. You'll forgive me but I think the Portuguese title is so much fitting. We even have an expression coined from it, kafkian process, that we use at least once a year. Maybe because we find ourselves dealing with that kind of thing very often. At this moment I'm facing a couple of kafkian processes myself, one of which has to do with taxes being charged on my house. Although I've been to the taxes services many times and they all agree that I'm right, no one has the authority to stop these taxes being charged! I'm paying these taxes in hopes that one day, maybe some years from now, the money will be returned to me. If I don't pay there will be interest adding to the taxes and it will end up in court and I may very well lose the house because I didn't pay taxes that were charged on an administrative error that no one seems to be able to fix! So yes, I understand the book! One of the best books I've ever read.

    The Trial (I'll begrudgingly submit to the English title) is like a bad dream. Not necessarily a nightmare but a bad dream that drags, and drags, and drags, and no end is in sight. That's the story the book is telling and the style makes you live that story as you read. It just drags, and drags, and like the character you're about to get furious to be told what the charges are, but it never comes. Maybe that's the nightmare: a long, long bad dream that you can't wake up from. Reading the book is that experience and is frustrating. It's supposed to be frustrating. At this point you're as frustrated as the character. You're feeling it.

    One day later you'll remember it, unless you're very lucky. Not my case. One kafkian process after another.

    By the way, The Castle is very similar to The Trial, worse because it's unfinished. You really have to appreciate the style if you are to enjoy it.
     
  7. Vince Higgins

    Vince Higgins Curmudgeon. Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,059
    Likes Received:
    822
    Location:
    33°11'20.91"N, 117°18'10.34"W
    Currently Reading::
    Caltrans-Detention Basins Design Guide
    I got through it, by sure grit and determination.
    The point of the whole thing, and I got a sense of it about a third of the way through, so could have stopped there, was that he was literally on trial 'for' his life. Think of 'for' in the context of "for want of a nail. . ." His crime was that he was a dick.
     
  8. Kenosha Kid

    Kenosha Kid Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    83
    Kafka's two famous novels both charge his alter ego with an indefinite task in a labyrinthine environment populated by horny women seemingly there to turn his attention from the task in hand (Kafka, who was more comfortable with prostitutes than other women, was not a great characteriser of them). And lo his attention is turned. If this is the sort of dickishness you mean, you make a good point.

    But since the first we see of K is his arrest, it seems harsh to say that dickishness was his crime. Why do you think he is a dick?

    Kafka wrote about overwhelming, causeless guilt quite a lot, with either direct or indirect references to the harsh and unjust judgments of family (particularly fathers), employers, society, the state and God. The Judgment and Metamorphosis are two short stories that bear comparison.

    I think you put it well. He is on trial 'for' his life. I don't think it's for anything he's actually done, even being a dick. He is guilty, therefore he is guilty. In a totalitarian, shady state, it was never going to end well for someone like him.
     
  9. Vince Higgins

    Vince Higgins Curmudgeon. Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,059
    Likes Received:
    822
    Location:
    33°11'20.91"N, 117°18'10.34"W
    Currently Reading::
    Caltrans-Detention Basins Design Guide
    It was mostly his treatment of women. Burstner, who he desires, but rejects him. The lawyers housemaid (the name escapes me right now), who pursues him, but he rejects. Perhaps there was some self loathing in writing it.
     
  10. Kenosha Kid

    Kenosha Kid Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    83
    Definitely an unhealthy dose of self-loathing. It's Kafka's favourite subject. :D
     
  11. Rosacrvx

    Rosacrvx Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    698
    Likes Received:
    427
    Location:
    Lisbon, Portugal
    (I don't think it needs to be under "spoiler".)

    I agree that the subconscious message of the story is that he was on trial for his life. (Thank you for reminding me, I read it a long time ago and it wasn't fresh in my mind.) It's not necessary to live under a totalitarian regime to relate with this experience. The fact that Kafka lived in those circumstances may have inspired him to write an equally "oppressive" story and style, but the feeling of being on trial for one's life and being guilty without reason is a very universal one. That's why it resonates so much. We are all being judged constantly. We all fear judgement, despite our personal strategies to overcome this fear. We've all been K. at some point.
     
    Kenosha Kid likes this.
  12. Kenosha Kid

    Kenosha Kid Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    83
    If we're talking Kafka, rather than K, religion played a big part of this too. The arbitrariness, the ill-defined nature of it, the nonsensical explanations... Nothing is more totalitarian than God. But power, as well as judgement, is a theme of The Trial in particular and his work more broadly, usually state power (but also corporate power). It's not just that K is on trial; it's also that the state has the power to do what it does, while he is powerlessly trapped in a labyrinthine, unyielding, inscrutable legal structure.

    What I meant by "In a totalitarian, shady state, it was never going to end well for someone like him" is that totalitarian societies victimise, and K, in his causeless guilt (as you describe so well), is a perfect victim.
     
    Rosacrvx likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice