Hello from a Darwin-lover

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Atchemes Beagle, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. Atchemes Beagle

    Atchemes Beagle Member

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    Yes, I will. Are people's work mostly fiction? I have some doubt that I'm in the right spot. But what the hell, this is fun. I like to think of my writing as creative nonfiction but some would undoubtedly want me to call it memoir. (Ohhh, doesn't everybody have a memoir?)
     
  2. Oxymaroon

    Oxymaroon Contributor Contributor

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    There is a category, apparently, for everything.
    I've only been here two weeks myself and have only just qualified to post a story. Did some reviewing and lots of reading, though, and i think the works on offer are pretty decent literary quality across the board.
     
  3. Birch

    Birch Member

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    I find discussions like this incredibly interesting. Being an atheist, I have often tried to have discussions with people from different religions. Depending on the person, we sometimes reach a point where further discussion is pointless. This point is reached when someone disagrees with obvious facts, e.g. the age of planet earth, big bang, etc. At university I have participated in debates with topics such as: “Science vs. Religion” or “Is God still alive?”. During these debates at university only science majors were present. And what I find scary is that over the years I have found more and more people to straight out deny facts (such as the age of the earth!). Nowadays society often perpetuates freedom of choosing facts, confusing it with freedom of speech. Of course everyone is at liberty to have their own beliefs, but denying basic science, especially if proven fact (such as evolution), cannot chosen to be ignored, especially in education. I feel facts are often seen by people as opinions, something which definitely has to change.
     
  4. Atchemes Beagle

    Atchemes Beagle Member

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    "Freedom of choosing facts" is a good point. While I believe that tolerance is necessary in society, hasn't it gone too far? You're right that too many people feel they have the right to state, rather than opine, things like God is real and the prophesies of the Bible are being fulfilled. They may claim we do the same with evolution or climate change, but the evidence is simply overwhelming.

    So, looks like you are new here. Can you tell me your impression so far? What are your goals?
     
  5. Vince Higgins

    Vince Higgins Curmudgeon. Contributor

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    I have read Revelation, and it is clear to me (and should be to anyone who can read critically) that the author was describing things he expected to witness in his own lifetime. Did he? Well, if you strip away the monsters and demons and end of the world, he did, and we have been witnessing variations on it ever since.

    He starts by describing the political landscape of the known world, mostly in terms of the churches that passed for government in the states that ringed the Mediterranean. Some he spoke of some in glowing terms, others he condemned in what was a "revelation" of his own political bias.
     
  6. Atchemes Beagle

    Atchemes Beagle Member

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    Have you read, or seen, "Science Speaks," by Peter Stoner? This has to be one of the most pathetic attempts to use "science" to "prove" that the prophesies of the Bible have been fulfilled. It's all about molding the Biblical prophesies to fit the happenings of our time (or earlier). It's the art of interpretation. Subjective interpretation.
     
  7. Birch

    Birch Member

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    I found this website while looking for feedback on a novel I’m writing (but I haven’t uploaded anything yet). I’ve been reading what other members have posted. So far I’ve been amazed by the sincerity and effort put into critiques. My two favourite genres are fantasy and anything sciency (especially if it has to do with molecular biology, genetics or evolution), but I pretty much read anything.

    I read the short extract on the webpage you linked. Sounds really good! Is that your goal? Writing a book on evolution with the focus on dogs? If so, I’d be happy to read anything you are working on (but fair warning, I am definitely no expert!)
     
  8. Vince Higgins

    Vince Higgins Curmudgeon. Contributor

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    Haven't even heard of Stoner. Sounds like he saw the same things I did, but then had to ruin it by saying goddidit. "We have found the gods, and they are us"-me.

    I read a lot of science fiction when I was younger, and once aspired to write it. Then serialized fantasy fantasy took over, and I discovered writers like Vonnegut. You will have a lot of company since fantasy seems to me to be the most popular genre, not just here, but in other forums I've visited.
     
  9. Atchemes Beagle

    Atchemes Beagle Member

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    I commend you for working on a novel. I'm having trouble with just 1700 words that I'm submitting to a magazine. I've asked three people (outside this forum) to provide critique and sheesh, what a humbling experience! But I guess it's all good.

    And wow, you are the first person to ever comment on my website -- thanks so much for checking it out! It's a work-in-progress and I'm having fun with it.
     
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  10. JLT

    JLT Contributor Contributor

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    ...who once observed that many science fiction writers don't know science for sour apples. (His character Kilgore Trout was intended to be a caricature of that sort of SciFi writer ... wildly imaginative and utterly disdainful, if not totally ignorant, of basic scientific principles.) As a PR man for General Electric and the brother of one of the last century's more prominent scientists, he was in a better position to understand the influence of science in society than most people.

    Vonnegut's science was actually pretty solid when he wanted it to be, as in Galapagos, which I've already mentioned, and in Cat's Cradle, where he posits a variation of an ice crystal that ... well, you'll have to read the book. It's one of his best, and I really hope to see somebody make a movie of it. (Terry Gilliam, maybe ... and hey, Terry, the book already has a Little Person.)
     
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  11. Vince Higgins

    Vince Higgins Curmudgeon. Contributor

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    Ahh. Another Vonnegut fan. I will admit that I have not read everything of his, just most of it, some of it more than once. Never gave Galapagos a second go, but am thinking it. #1 re-read is Jailbird, and I even gave an adapted screenplay of it a go as an exercise. #2 Hocus Pocus. I was teaching at a for-profit diploma mill (ITT Tech) the first time I read it, and parts of it hit home.

    Vonnegut based Kilgore Trout on a writer who was actually a friend, named Theodore Sturgeon. I think KV acknowledged scientific validity, while not feeling completely restrained by it. (Microscopic Chinese {shades of a current film}, Chronosynclastic Infundibula.)

    I grew up on Heinlein, and Clark. While a big fan of Asimov, I never got into his novels. I couldn't finish the Foundation Series. I have read some of his popular non-fiction, and found it better than his fiction.

    I agree that the amount of science in science fiction has declined. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Post apocalyptic and dystopian fiction can be very valid commentary on the human condition.

    Some of my earlier attempts at writing fiction were SF. I found it difficult to create the same sense of wonder that the 'old masters' could with fantastic tales of journeys to moon and such. Even Vonnegut drifted away from the genre, though he never disparaged it as a 'literary ghetto' that many mainstream writers do.

    Edit (I do not know what KV and Heinlein thought of each other, but know he was a good friend of Asimov)
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  12. Kenosha Kid

    Kenosha Kid Active Member

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    This x1000. In RE at school we were taught that God buried the dinosaur bones to test our faith. Didnt matter because it was RE. In science we learned, if not the exact truth (scientific measurements and models are always subject to correction and improvement - this is precisely why it's such a good tool for determining facts), something very close to it.

    It bothers me that in some parts of the US they started teaching creationism in science classes. It's blatant brainwashing. Believe what you want as an adult, but give the kids a chance.

    This mentality (presenting BS as objective truth) is definitely catching on here in the UK. Everything seems like it's up for grabs, and not just in politics. A. N. Wilson released a biography of Darwin recently that seems to follow suit, a vicious ad hominem, and an attempt to plant the most irrational Christian flag in scientific history to boot, apparently protected under the roof of interpretation and it's new, ramshackle brother: alternative facts. Think of the children...
     
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  13. Vince Higgins

    Vince Higgins Curmudgeon. Contributor

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    A move in this direction by the Kansas state board of education led to an open letter to them by a young man that inspired the viral Church of the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster. It also inspired by a t-shirt I own and came from CafePress.com.

    "Science*
    The methodical study of the nature and behavior of the physical and material universe, based on observation, experiment, and measurement, and the establishment of laws to describe these facts in general terms.

    *Definition may not apply in Kansas."
     
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  14. Kenosha Kid

    Kenosha Kid Active Member

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    Yeah, a co-worker of mine was ordained.

    Haha class!

    And that's the thing, isn't it. It's not science or religion that causes a problem. It's a---holes. Even to this degree, if someone believes the Earth is 6,000 years old, so be it. If someone believes this is scientific fact, i.e. appropriates the reputation of science to hold up a nonscientific viewpoint, that should be challenged. And if someone believes that the next generation of humans should be tricked at a young age into believing this is what science tells us, we have a very big problem.
     
  15. Vince Higgins

    Vince Higgins Curmudgeon. Contributor

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    I self identify as a Pastafarian.
     

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