To me poetry cannot be forced... it's a feeling that you have inside.. and you do your best to transfer that feeling through writing... Sometimes it comes out just how you felt it.. and sometimes it doesn't... There is no wrong or right because the poem is yours, and your feeling. It could be trash to everyone else.. but have meaning to you and why you wrote it.
No, this is lyrical. Dramatic would be if she was speaking as a fictional character, like Harry Potter. -
I've been following this discussion almost from the beginning, and I'm putting myself in the position of the original poster, who has learned what some people think a poem should be, and what others don't think a poem is. At this point, I'm thinking, "Well, poetry is too much for me. I don't understand how this rhythm thing works, I don't know if I have the proper quotient of rhyme or metaphor or alliteration or lyricism or (fill in the blank here). Maybe I shouldn't think about writing a poem after all...I'll just let more knowledgeable people do it." To hell with all that. Just write the damn poem. See what you come up with. Tweak it six ways from Sunday, and see how it responds. It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't even have to be good. All you have to do is bring something into being that didn't exist before. If you can capture something of your own thought or spirit and put it into words, you've done well.
I would just like to say, I apologize if my comments or the debate I had with PoemNerd painted poetry in a complicated or scary light, but that was most certainly not my intention. I did not mean to discourage the OP from jumping right in, I just meant to suggest a few things that have helped me in my poetic journey. So to the OP: yes, of course you can jump right in. Just like writing prose, you're not going to know everything about it right off the bat. Heck, I'd even venture to say that everyone's first couple of poems/stories were pretty bad, but you'll get better. The only way you're going to improve is through practice
It really depends how serious you are. I can be very serious about something, but it’s invariably short-lived which is why I haven’t read or written any poetry since sometime around my last comment to the poetry section here. Regardless, I used to write poetry many years ago, but knew nothing about the technical aspects. So this time round when I decided I wanted to give a more serious go my starting point was a book (Stephen Fry’s The Ode Less Travelled). This showed me the basics of rhyme and meters, which meant I could then write poetry that while nothing special was, at least, a poem in the technical sense.
Additionally, I don't think meter is as hard as some people may think. When I first started studying it I was very intimidated, but I persisted. Then, after writing a couple of poems in iambic pentameter and getting some feedback on them on here, I started to get it. My point is, even if it seems scary at first, stick with it and keep trying, and you'll eventually get it ETA: This was directed mainly at the OP, not you Jud
Indeed. Meter certainly needs to be learned (and practiced), but like you say it’s not some magical key to great poetry, known only to the masters. What I will say is that it’s very easy to get rusty. If I was to sit down now and attempt a poem, I’d struggle. That’s how it is for me anyway.
I've experienced this as well. If I've been writing poems fairly frequently, I could probably write a metrically acceptable poem without much of a problem. If I haven't written a poem in a while, I have to get back into the groove of things.
And that is why I mentioned the Ciardi and Perrine books; they also school you in some of the techniques of poetry and how they can be used effectively. But these estimable poets tell you that all these things are tools that one can use, not precepts that one must adhere to. If the beginning poet is thinking "Well, I tried to express the feelings of my soul, but couldn't get it into iambic pentameter so I have to consider the poem a failure," then there's something wrong with his or her approach. That meter was simply not an appropriate tool for the purpose. I'm often reminded of the phrase "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that all technique is bad. I am learning to play the violin ... the first stringed instrument I've ever played that doesn't have frets ... and am learning to locate my fingers properly on the fingerboard so that a precise note is generated. And I can't cheat by getting close and then sliding my finger into the right place as I bow the string (a technique called slurring), because that might be the basis for a bad habit that would be hell to break in the future. If you've heard a bit of fiddling, you know that accomplished fiddlers slur their notes all the time, as an effective technique. But they can hit notes precisely, too. They have two tools in their toolbox for hitting a note, and know when to use each one for maximum effect. Similarly, a poet has lots of tools at his or her disposal, and success depends on knowing what tool to use when. The poet should be conversant with them, and practice using them. Then the poet (or any writer, actually) can give each poem the texture it deserves. Otherwise, the poems would have a sameness to them that dulls the palate, sort of like a meal where the only condiment is ketchup, or a house that has the same wallpaper in every room..
My apologies, @JLT. Re-reading your post I can see I clearly ‘jumped the gun’ and in doing so assumed it was you who was expressing a fear of poetry. I see now that you were speaking as an imaginary.
I came out above the wood Where my breath left tortuous statues in the iron light - Ted Hughes, The Horses
No apologies necessary. In fact, I'm impressed with the level of discourse on this thread, and on this forum in general. We can have our opinions, and defend them vigorously, but without the disrespect for other's opinions that I see all too often on the Internet.
Oh phone get out of my house You are a bad god Go whisper on some other pillow Do not lift your snake head in my house Do not bite anymore beautiful people You plastic crab - Ted Hughes, Do not Pick up the Telephone
Think they are giving examples of published poems that do not conform to the rules. Or I could be completely wrong!
Oh, okay then. @Solar I'm not sure if you're trying to prove a point or what, but if you are I'll say what I said earlier in this thread, I really don't give as much time or respect to these kinds of poems as I do to other longer, well written, good sounding poems. That's my opinion, anyway
Herr God, Herr Lucifer Beware Beware. Out of the ash I rise with my red hair And I eat men like air. - Sylvia Plath, Lady Lazarus
This is one of the poems I studied in English Language at School. Excuse me standing on one leg I’m half-caste. Explain yuself wha yu mean when yu say half-caste yu mean when Picasso mix red an green is a half-caste canvas? explain yuself wha yu mean when yu say half-caste yu mean when light an shadow mix in de sky is a half-caste weather? well in dat case england weather nearly always half-caste in fact some o dem cloud half-caste till dem overcast so spiteful dem don’t want de sun pass ah rass? explain yuself wha yu mean when yu say half-caste yu mean tchaikovsky sit down at dah piano an mix a black key wid a white key is a half-caste symphony? Explain yuself wha yu mean Ah listening to yu wid de keen half of mih ear Ah looking at yu wid de keen half of mih eye an when I’m introduced to yu I’m sure you’ll understand why I offer yu half-a-hand an when I sleep at night I close half-a-eye consequently when I dream I dream half-a-dream an when moon begin to glow I half-caste human being cast half-a-shadow but yu must come back tomorrow wid de whole of yu eye an de whole of yu ear an de whole of yu mind. an I will tell yu de other half of my story. John Agard - Half Caste
Ok @8Bit Bob I respect your opinion that the kinds of poems which you have no respect for. However this is exactly your opinion, and whilst I am being frank, the previous rants on this here thread seems merely to promote your ideology and not what actually the OP was asking. I requite the definition of poetry from the oxford dictionary. This is poetry - OB1 Here be my final post on this matter, poetry merely words not in prose. To say not, be a lie to agree. Emote a response, a retort a feeling Be no rhyme, be no meter Yet I pose to you this is poetry
I'm sorry if you saw my posts as rants, as that was truly not my intention. And yes, of course it is my opinion, I know that. I've attempted to put the sentence "but this is of course, my opinion" or some variation of it in every possible area of every post I've made so far. My first post was to the OP, but after that PoemNerd engaged me directly and challenged my opinions, hence the reason I stated them. Then others began to challenge my opinions, so I defended them. P.S. I am not upset about this at all, and would prefer it if we didn't end this in a grudge with each other, so can we just agree to disagree?
I haven't got a grudge to hold! I merely meant to defend my position in this interesting topic. To be honest, this thread has actually got me to think about poetry again, and might even work a bit of poetry into my novel WIP. I will endeavour to look up poetic devices and methods. Might help me progress. I am just passionate (as you maybe so too) that art be not put down because it doesn't fall under a particular method. Art is just a way to show, or elicit an emotional response. I loved drawing, painting etc. But when I did art in GCSE's at School, I was told I had to draw this, I had to draw that, it literally took away my love for it all which is a shame!! Same with poetry.
