Yes, and this is why people in the industry should stop misusing terms (like "indie" for self-publishing...) Words matter. Yes, an author is both trade and self- published.
They do - but that isn't a misuse, it's a widely accepted term (hence organisations like ALLi) - brought about by 'people in the industry' putting self publishing down and saying stuff like "most self published books sell less than twenty copies" which just isn't true of anyone who does it properly... hence indie authors ..... but that's a conversation for another thread. In answer to Jannert's question a hybrid author is someone who is both indie and traditionally published. but that isnt terribly germane to the publishing quesion A hybrid publisher is one that occupies the middle ground between trad and indie, but isn't a vanity press. Jane Friedman suggests that the acid test between Hybrid and vanity is that they can clearly point out what it is they do that is a hallmark of a traditional publisher (selectivity in acquisition, editorial services, access to markets an indie author can't access on their own etc, royalities etc) her full blog on it is here https://www.janefriedman.com/what-is-a-hybrid-publisher/ As an Indie by the time you've paid for cover design, editing, and marketing you'll have spent a fair chunk of what they cost anyway, so they aren't necessarily a bad idea in all circumstances if they provide real value I suspect we will see the term 'hybrid' drop out of use for these places as it is becoming more and more synonymous with vanity presses. Which brings us back to the first point.. yes words matter, but there isn't a central arbiter of what they mean and that usage evolves over time
Now that @Daniel has surfaced could this be looked at again. I do a little bit of vomit in my mouth every time I see their ad on a reputable writers forun
Hello, sorry to bother you all but I am new to this forum and spotted this discussion. May I ask for some help/advice? How did you stop the contract with them? I am a new author and a week ago I foolishly signed a contract with Austin Macauley as I received some bad advice from a so called friend that said they were traditional publishers. They sent me a HUGE bill for my book 3k+ which I am refusing to pay as I certainly don't have that amount and never will. I never expected to have a bill like that. I have also not sent my story over for editing like they are requesting. How do I stop the contract? As I recently discovered it's a foreign company the contract is with and not the UK one I thought I was submitted to.
Strictly speaking if you've actually signed the contract - presumably without reading it properly, then you are liable for the money... you might be able to break it in court, but equally if you refuse to pay what you have contracted to then they may take you to court for non payment. your best bet at this stage would be to speak to a lawyer (if you signed it very recently the distance selling regs and cooling off period might apply, but I couldn't say for sure) The moral of this story is never to sign anything without reading the fine print
Thank you for replying, it's my own stupid fault for trusting someone else's judgement of it. I guess I'm off to court then, I can't afford to pay anything not even for a lawyer
Citizens advice bureau (I assume you're in the UK) Also what service have they provided for their £3k ? If they haven't yet you might be able to cancel still (If you are completely broke and they take you to court or to a debt collection service, bankruptcy may be an option , but that's not something to do lightly as it will roast your credit rating)
Sorry to hear that. Read the contract carefully to see what it says about cancellation and follow those procedures UNLESS they require you to pay. If there is no mechanism for getting out of the contract without paying - and bear in mind I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice - what I would do is simply go silent. I wouldn't send the manuscript or contact AM again. In my opinion, it's highly, highly unlikely they would pursue you for the fees. They have more to lose than you from a court case, since it would bring to light the fact that they are a vanity publisher - something they try very hard to disguise. If you have legal cover (many people have it with their mortgage, credit card, or union membership) then use it and talk to a real lawyer, though you should know publishing contracts are different from other types of contract and most lawyers won't be able to advise too accurately on them. In your shoes I wouldn't be worrying. But I'm not a lawyer!
The end result is likely to be that “indie” will become a synonym for “self published”, since that’s what this usage means, and will therefore be replaced by yet a third term—but meanwhile its meaning to describe a certain category of traditional publishers will be permanently lost, which is unfortunate.
I really hate it when words with a specific meaning get hijacked like this. Then, as you say, the original meaning gets lost. Grrrr.... Language does evolve, but this is simply mistaken usage getting universally accepted far too quickly—through ignorance, I suspect. And what happens to the original concept? Grrrr...
The language evolves, also indie is not synonymous with self publishing, it came about because of the idea that self was less than trad, to mean an author doing things properly independently. It is not hijacked or taken through ignorance... It was that sort of attitude against self publishers which made a different term necessary Also it hasn't happened quickly, ALLi has been going now for I think six years End of the day this sort of evolution of language happens all the time. Gay is a classic case. Like it or not, it's happened, if the original part of trad publishing wants to differentiate it could rebrand, or it could not and trust that people are intelligent enough to know the difference
@Boogleeboo Hi there. I just did an quick online search for how to get out of an Austin MacAuley contract. Nothing really jumped out at me, other than the tons of advice that warns people not to sign one. Not very helpful, I'm afraid. Like @Tenderiser , I'm not a lawyer. However, I suspect it's good that you haven't actually sent them your book for editing, as they haven't actually done any work for you yet. I would agree with Tenderiser, that you should indeed read the fine print, and take advantage of any get-out stuff you might find there. (Cooling off period, etc.) If this doesn't help, then certainly speak to somebody who can give you legal advice on this. The last thing YOU need is a lawsuit clapped on you, or a bad credit rating. Austin MacAuley may well be shysters, but they are bigger than you, and are known for fleecing would-be authors. I wouldn't put anything past them. So keep yourself right and get legal advice ASAP. You sound as if you weren't aware of the amount they would be charging you. Did they give you a different amount before you signed? If they've moved goalposts since you signed, that might be something you could use against them. If you simply weren't aware, however, and they DID let on what their charges would be and you signed anyway, then I suspect you'll need to work on the 'buyer's remorse' angle.
Well, there has recently been a contest in the UK (I've forgotten the details, as I didn't think I'd need to try to remember them) open to books recently produced by Indie publishers. Indies are small, independent presses, NOT self-publishers. The distinction was very clear. Indies produce contracts, pay their authors, and promote the books. Just like the bigger traditional publishers do. The only difference is that they are small, and often focused on reaching particular markets. Like this: https://www.ribbonfish.co.uk/blog/6-exciting-independent-uk-publishers/
This is truly terrible advice, and symptomatic of why you should talk to a lawyer or cab rafter than relying on the Internet. Going silent puts you in breach of the contract, and all they would need to is raise a money claim against you, which does not run the risk of exposing them in a court case, all that would happen is you wind up with a ccj and bailiffs at your door. Get real legal advice from a lawyer Asap. Citizens advice are an option, or some lawyers run free/ cheap surgeries. It may be that you can get out of the contract, but the key thing until you do is not to put yourself in the wrong
Indie publishers are small independent presses, indie authors are those who chose to self publish properly ( by which I mean with editors, decent covers, marketing etc) It's not a difficult distinction to understand, just like the difference between an indie label, and an independent musician. The other thing of note is that before people get into high dudgeon about the word being hijacked, the oed definition is far closer to how indie authors use it, so it seems to me that it's original meaning has already been distorted in the description of small presses
Sorry. I came late to this discussion, and haven't read the entire thread. I thought the name hijacking thing was related to the distinction between books that have been self-published versus books that have been published by Indie presses. My mistake. Ach well. At least the info I linked to is correct as regards Indie presses! Here's an interesting article on the subject. Of course, as you say, the definitions are still in flux. But this one seems to make sense to me. https://selfpublishingadvice.org/what-is-an-indie-author/ See also this article about the indie spirit and why every author should self-publish (at least once)[/QUOTE] That above link (why every author should self publish at least once) another good thread by the same organisation. It's a little out of date (2015) which means some of the things they discuss (Like CreateSpace) have changed. But it contains lots of food for thought. I agree with them completely that publishing has changed, because of the internet and digital books. This has opened opportunities that simply haven't been there before, and the lines are already blurring between traditionally published books and independently published books. I think this is a good thing.
At the end of the day it's really a discussion for a different thread since Austin McCauley are neither an independent press nor a service for independent authors They are basically a vanity press dressed up as an Indy press. The key difference being that in trad publishing the money should flow to the author not away from them
One thing that occurred to me while I was walking the dog was to clarify the stage of the process you are at. What generally happens with vanities is 1) you submit your manuscript to them having believed the hype 2) they accept it because it's " so brilliant" ( they accept nearly everything) 3) they send you an agreement and a request for money , often dressed up as an author contribution, or other such guff. At this point nothing is binding and the wise author tells them to take a flying leap. If you are at this point you can safely ignore any further coms from them once you've told them you don't want to continue ( it's important to tell them because they may have a no reply implies acceptance of these terms clause ) It's only after 4) the unwise author signs the agreement and returns it to them That you'd have a legal problem. At that point you have agreed a contract to pay x for y, and it isnt easy to get out of unless they fail to provide the services they've contracted to provide. If you are at point four see a lawyer Asap, if you are at point three write back telling them you don't want to go forward, send it signed for and keep a copy and the receipt.
Damn, the topic of the thread is fucked up. This needs to be pinned for new and inspiring writers as a warning. I once was approached by a publisher claiming not to be "Vanity" when I tried to get my first full length novel published, I was open at first but thankfully a lack of confidence and fear of sharing kept me from doing something I might have regretted. They could have been legit or not, but it doesn't matter now. Also that Full length novel I discovered years later when I went back to revise it was terrible, so thank good I never got it published. And this... I agree with Moose, go see a lawyer.
Wow. I don't envy you. Do you have anyone who might give you an hour or so of legal advice? Stand strong and hang in there. EDIT: Meaning, don't get depressed, don't run away; deal with this. There will be a way; you just have to find it.
According to the comments on @Boogleeboo 's profile page, she has managed to get out of the contract after all. I'm hoping she will post (on this thread) what happened, and how she managed that. But whew...
I suspect it wasn't quite as much a contract as he/she thought .... as i said above it doesn't become a contract until after you sign the document they send you... Most sensible authors see the figures quoted and say "no i don't think so"
It was indeed a contract I signed but no figures were quoted until after a request for my manuscript to be sent in a word document came through. It was at that point I realised no I don't think so.
Sorry for the delay in replying to you all when you live out in the sticks apparently poor wifi connections are not a priority to be mended quickly. I emailed the editor directly and politely said sorry the contract wasn't fully explained to me and I would like to withdraw my book submission as I did not realise that they were vanity publishers. They didn't like me using this word as a lengthy email was sent back with the difference between a vanity publisher and a hybrid one which apparently is what they are. In my opinion, I saw no difference between the two types but what do I know on the subject not being a sensible author. All this explanation is on their website they said but I pointed out it was an advert my friend pressed and it went straight to a submission form where none of these terms were mentioned about the money etc. They also went on to explain fully what the contract meant and what they required now was for them to be fully paid or if I preferred a payment plan to be set up to ease the financial burden as they worded it. Again I emailed with a sorry but I can't afford any form of payment as I don't work and have no job. I did say thank you for fully explaining things to me and taking the time to do so but I was at a loss as to what is best to do next for both of us. My intention when submitting my work wasn't in any way to waste their time or mine. It was then I received an email back with an apology on their behalf about the misunderstanding and I was to email back my request to cancel my submission contract and attach my signature to that email. Which I did and the reply was I am now released from my publishing contract with them, all rights of my book have been reverted back to me and they wished me well on my writing journey.
Yeah, these guys are known bad actors in publishing, for reasons people have pointed out in this thread. Steer clear.
