When you read or write a story, would you read or write it differently if you switched your main character from being a male to a female or vice-versa? What if J.K. Rowling had made Harry Potter a girl character instead? Harriette Potter?? What I’m trying to get here is that would you read or write a story differently based on the gender of the character? If you wrote it in First-Person, would you write the story differently based on a male’s perspective vs. a female’s perspective? I am not a big fan of gender roles or stereotypes at all. I like to treat everyone as equals and that’s the way that is should be in my opinion. If you wrote a First-Person story and decided you wanted to switch your main protagonist from a male to female (for whatever reason)...would you write the story a lot differently? Both males and females share the same emotions and feelings. Statistics show males are more on the aggressive side but doesn’t mean that females can’t too. Females may be more nurturing than males (according to studies anyway) but that doesn’t mean they are required to be that way...perhaps they could be the exact opposite. When writing a story comparing a male’s perspective vs. a female’s perspective, only thing different shouldn’t be how they think or how they act...the only thing different is what they have between their legs and on their chest. I am writing a story from the First-Person perspective of a female crime lord. Naturally, she has a bit of a temper about her and she can be very aggressive when fighting. Now...given that she is a female...would you more or less likely to read her story? Or would this type of a character be more interesting to you as a male crime lord? I think about my audience all the time. I am just trying to figure out my female crime lord and how best to present her to my audience. Is there such thing as doing too much? If she has a bit of a temper and a very aggressive physical fighting style, would her being a female make my readers shy away from reading it or be more interested? I would think it doesn’t matter. It’s her story. If she’s a downright tough-as-nails badass, then let her be that way. Let her be her. Lots of random thoughts but anyone that would like to voice theirs or advice would be helpful and welcomed.
Well, I think the attitude of your characters should reflect their role in the story. I mean, you wouldn't write a healer that likes to stab people and expect our readers to take it seriously. In your case, I think you should read up on how real-life crime lords acted and base your character off of that. As long as the characterization matches what they're supposed to be, then I don't care whether their male or female; and I'd wager that most readers think along the same lines as that. If you're worried about not gaining an audience, then you should consider just stereotyping your characters. I'm serious. Stereotypes might be "lazy and overused" (I actually don't agree with this, but I'm not here to defend them, even though I love to), but they're really effective at getting a specific audience interested in your work. It's why all of those Percy Jackson and Harry Potter books have such a large following, even after all this time. People like to claim that they hate stereotypical characters, but we all know that they're irresistible to the general public. Who doesn't love to watch the protagonist that gets plucked from his normal life and put into a fantastical one that he isn't all that great at but you can be damn sure that he has heart and his goofy inept guy friend that knows him really well and his serious smart girl friend that keeps him in check that would die for him and helped him defeat the big bad guy. (Yes, the run-on sentence was for comedic effect. Oh, and that was the first books of both Percy Jackson and Harry Potter, in case I'm not as good at this as I think I am). Of course, I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but the spirit of the argument is legitimate. People love familiarity. People love when things are easy to identify. So, logically, people love stereotypes. So, yeah. If you're worried about how your audience receives your character, just make her characteristics match what she's supposed to be. If you're worried about actually getting the audience, then just make your characters stereotypical and watch the readers pour in.
Equal doesn't have to mean the same. And stereotypes have truths that's why their used. I'm not sure why on a planet where we normally celebrate differences how the differences between men and woman got to be such a touchy subject. I like being different. I think the great thing about being a writer is being able to step into someone's shoes and living out what it would be like to be the opposite sex or to take a typical character and reinvent them in a new gender. As for your tough-as-nails character I think you could definitely make her a bad ass. But there is a danger of making her seem a bitch. Face it, a male character can be ruthless without being a bastard, females not so much. Two words of advice -- 1. Don't have her show up men. Men don't have to show up women they just have to get things done. Whenever I see females showing up males in books it sounds like they're back on the playground sayin nyah nyah girls are better than boys. If you're good you don't have to prove it. 2. Give her a sense of humor. It will lessen the bitch stigma.
Ah, I forgot to answer one of your questions, Marthix. Yeah, it's the truth that people will read male and female characters differently, but that's just a matter of preferences. Some people would rather see a man kicking ass, some would rather see a woman kicking ass, it's just a fact of life. I think that you shouldn't pay too much attention to how different people will react to the gender of your characters, because it'll just take away from how you wanted to write them. Self-correcting is, by no means, a bad thing, but it can be when you self-correct for something as silly as whether or not some people will like your female protagonist or not. Something I thought of after reading what @peachalulu said. You don't want to make her a bitch all of the time, because your protagonist is someone that your audience should be rooting for, but, considering that she's a criminal boss, she's probably gonna have to get bitchy every now and then. She'll probably also have to show up her underlings from time-to-time, just to remind them that she is, in fact, superior to them just so she can keep her authority. Although, on the other side of that coin, you could make her the fair and kind boss. Sometimes, people would follow that kind of person just because they're a better person than the alternative.
I don't disagree with all of your post, but this line? No. There's a stereotype that Jews are greedy. Is that based on truth? How about the stereotype that black people are less intelligent/violence-prone/promiscuous/whatever? You think that's based on truths? Blondes are stupid, women can't drive, men are insensitive, Americans are ignorant and aggressive, Canadians are pleasant simpletons, etc. etc. etc. I don't buy it. For the OP - I think it's important to have a clear idea of at least your own ideas of what's innate and what's socially mandated for characters, and to give due consideration to both. Like... it's innate that most men will pee standing up. It's socially mandated that men will usually wear pants. It's a combination of the two that men will usually wear pants with a fly in the front that allows them to easily pee standing up. If you switch a male character to a female character, she probably won't pee standing up anymore. She may or may not wear pants, and, depending on the time period and the rest of the world you've built, this may or may not have consequences for her. Her pants may still have a fly in the front, but possibly they'll have a zipper on the side or the back instead. Obviously that's a pretty trivial example, but I think you can do the same exercise for larger things. Like, regardless of the averages or generalities, you could have a female character who's highly physically aggressive. (You can decide for yourself whether she's that way innately or because of her situation). If you're writing this character in most societies that have existed thusfar on the planet, society will probably treat her differently, as a physically aggressive woman, than it would treat a physically aggressive man. This different societal reaction will probably have an effect on her one way or another, and I think you'd want to acknowledge that in your story. (I love the treatment of women in Aliens, for example, and the movie acknowledges that these cool, badass women are still being looked down on by others. The classic "have you ever been mistaken for a man" exchange, the assumption that Ripley is useless, etc... the thesis of the movie itself is clearly that women are capable and tough, but that doesn't mean it ignores the expectations of the society in which it's based.)
Unless the healer has something to prove. Maybe he's bored. Maybe no one believes in him and he wants to showcase his skills by healing ever more creative injuries - but creative injuries don't happen every day, after all, so he has to manufacture them... I think you can very much take it seriously. Or maybe a healer who only thinks he can heal when every time he tries, he makes things worse Anyway sorry, I couldn't resist... Going from just the thread title (I'm all bleary-eyed and in a tl;dr mode sorry), in my experience no one's complained about my writing yet and my MCs are always male. I write in either close third or first person. So, from that, I'd say probably not much that's different. The one thing that is significantly more different might be sex. My husband gave me the tip to focus more on the physical aspects of sex and voila - again, no one really complained. However, I will admit that when I wrote sex from a female POV, it was a lot easier. Apart from sex, though, I can't think of much that's really completely different. Almost everything can be explained away as, "That's just how he/she is." Personality. There's no rule to that. If you really wanted to be realistic and serious, I'd say shape your men and women according to the society of your book. What are the stereotypes? What are the gender norms? Social etiquette? For example: In the UK, men and women generally open doors for each other. It's not ruled by gender. Generally speaking, gendered comments and behaviours are frowned upon. Sharing chores between men and women is expected, not something to be praised. Being 30 and single is normal. In the Czech Republic, no one opens doors for you and no one says thank you either. However, if someone were to be courteous enough to do so, it will probably be the man opening it for a woman, or a younger person opening it for an older person. Gender stereotypes are still strong, I believe. People call my daughter "princess" (in an endearing way) but I've not heard that used in the UK. One time in a playground, a Czech boy responded with, "What kind of princess is that!?" (because my daughter and him were chasing each other and smacking each other, play-fighting for a good hour and roaring like dinosaurs at each other) The boy was a very lovely little boy and I'm not offended by his comment, but it shows you some gender stereotypes. Household chores are generally not shared, largely. Being 30 and single is weird. In Japan, I've heard Japanese women complain that men don't help out, even when it's carrying crates of bottled water up the stairs (happened to my colleague once). Generally speaking, girls are a lot more helpful and obedient in class than boys, regardless of age. Girls are soft-spoken and boys are rowdy. Is that all boys and girls around the world? Not at all - only the Japanese. Men continue to be the breadwinner and women give up their careers to follow their husbands. They also have a phrase: No one wants a Christmas cake after the 25th. Meaning, a woman after the age of 25 is not worth marrying anymore. Too old. These are just things I've observed and I've obviously generalised. Each of these societies and accepted norms are different. The why's behind them are complex and interesting. If you really want to get serious with whether it should be different writing from a male or female POV - look into the society in which he or she grew up. Her responses, expectations, wishes and desires, the jobs she takes, the role she willingly takes on without complaints - all these will be hugely affected by the culture in which she grew up. Look into that. Beyond that, you can safely just write whatever because, as I said, everything can be explained away by their personality
Above all, I think any character has to be believable. So if you want your fictional female character to be a successful crime lord, you must make us believe that she is. Part of our belief will be based on how she got there in the first place (did she inherit from Papa or Mama Crime Lord, or did she work her way up from the ranks?) Part will be based on what she does while she's there—how she ensures loyalty among her henchpeople and defeats other crime lords when necessary. Part will be based on her individual personality. How other people react to her can certainly reinforce a gender stereotype. How (or if) she rattles that stereotype is up to you. She might even play along with it. If her enemies believe she's weak and stupid because she's a blonde female ...well, that can work in her favour if she pretends these stereotypes are true—until it's time for the kill. You can also structure her society so that gender truly doesn't matter. The Battlestar Galactica TV series (the recent remake) did that very well indeed.
I'm not saying stereotypes are nice, some are ugly picking out the worst of us and aggrandizing it. Some are politically motivated. And some like a misquote need to be reshaped because their target is off -- it's not black people/ hillbillies/ Canadian First Nations that are the problem its poverty & a sense of permanent injustice that can create ignorance, violence etc. Take the Blondes for just an example -- the movies have been running with stupid blondes for almost a century -- Marilyn Monroe, Jean Harlow, Marie Wilson, Legally Blonde, Paris Hilton, Jayne Mansfield -- that doesn't help the stigma. Neither do the imitators. I'm a stereotypical redhead with a temper. Teenage boys are moody. When a woman is ranting and raving and someone says, what's your problem PMS -- sometimes they'll be right. When every fashion show seems to feature a gay guy we start to think they know fashion. Are we wrong? Perhaps for all of gay men but that's how a stereotype works -- it's about picking the symbol (worst or best or prejudice) and making it apply to the whole. This isn't great to base a character on but its great stuff to think about as a writer. We are a people that like to label each other.
You weren't saying stereotypes were nice, you were saying they were based on truth. I disagree with that. I agree that they're perpetuated by society, but... that doesn't make them true!
I used to always be paranoid my male characters POV characters sounded too feminine. Then I read this, and stopped worrying about it. (I highly recommend reading the whole thing for the details, but for the link-phobic, it's a post by a male author describing how he had a story about a male character rejected because the editor thought his male voice wasn't "convincing.") Actually, that's a lie. I still worry about it. To this day I can be weirdly sexist when I'm trying to figure this stuff out. I second, third, and fourth-guess myself every time I have a male character cry. Somehow, and despite being raised by a father who tears up at the mere mention of anything emotional, I have the stereotype burned into my brain that men don't cry. I read books by male authors where the dudes cry all the time and I'm like, "See! You can do that too, Dragon Turt!" I mean, it comes down to individual personality, of course. I have written characters I can't imagine crying under anything but the most devastating of circumstances and maybe not even then. Testosterone does make a difference. But testosterone levels vary a lot from person to person, and within an individual person they fluctuate as well. So even if you know the effects testosterone has, it's not a be-all-end-all determinant. A few months ago my D&D group was talking about the difference between roleplaying male and female characters. I said that the only difference between men and women is that if their partner comes home all beaten up and bloody, a woman's first instinct will be, "Oh my god, are you okay? What happened? Do we need to go to the hospital?" and a man's will be, "WHERE ARE THEY? I'M GOING TO KILL THEM." The nurturing vs. aggression thing. The guys were generally amused and agreed with this, but my brother-in-law said, "If that happened to [my wife], my first thought would be to take her to the hospital." So yeah.
From my humble view of things, a male and female perspective will always be different in any society where sexism exists in some form exist. Just like it will be different between ethnical groups where ethnical differences are considered or between social classes due to class differences. The way I see it is this: People are shaped by their experiences. So in a society, both modern or historical ones, men and women are likely to have different experiences growing up and living their lives they will shape up differently. Unless the story takes place in a society that's perfectly equal then perspectives will be different, girls growing up will find encouragement for other things than boys are encouraged for and so most of them will likely follow the path they are encouraged to follow and where they get positive feedback. This does not mean that all girls will grow up to be house wives and all men will grow up to be macho pigs. But it will probably mean that women and men will have a higher chance to develop certain character traits. That of course don't mean that men or women can't do things that are associated with another gender, but it means that they will have different experiences doing such. In the case of the mob boss, of course a woman can be a mob boss, but her experience from being one may differ somewhat from a man's and that will be an experience that will probably affect her.
I first took this to be about whether there would be a difference in the first-person writing--the phrasing, the voice, etc. But now it sounds like it's about the story events will be different? @Marthix2016 , can you clarify?
I wanted to pick on this, because I'm also a redhead. So when you get mad and people dismiss it as "you being a redhead" -- that doesn't offend you? It's one of my biggest pet peeves. Right up there with "You're only angry because you're on your period."
I think more about socialization than anything. I generally like writing in fantastical settings where gendered socialization only exists if I want it to (spoilers: I don't), but when I'm writing in RL settings, I primarily take into account how a character would be affected by the upbringing they had due to the gender they were assigned. I don't think there have to be inherent differences between male and female perspectives; every person's perspective is different for a plethora of reasons, and I've never understood why some folks think that gender has to be the key deciding factor. When it comes to readers, sure, they're going to have different opinions of characters' negative and positive traits and actions due to gender -- see the Skyler White Effect where people hated on the wife of a villain for calling out his villainous deeds. My method is to not give a shit about those people It's fine if they think Female Character A is a shrill bitch and Male Character B is a delicate soyboy. I'm just trying to write characters who feel like real people, and there are more types of real people in the world than stereotype allows for.
Men and Women are human, both have the usual emotions, but how they express those emotions are very different. Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus, is a perfect example. I would say NO, you cannot change the sex of the main character, told in the first person, without some thoughtful editing throughout.
As Michele says, men and women are human, so much of their experiential base is shared. Of course, women have had to, in general, wwork much harder to be treated as equals to men, all other things being equal. Male and female subcultures differ. But gender is only one factor that separates one person's experiences and outlook from thiose of another, and each person decides how much his or her experiences with shape their personality. Either can choose to learn from experience or be a victim of it. Focus on the person rather than the gender, and you can rarely go wrong. Observe and report what you see in people around you, and always remain aware of where your own biases lie.
So... what's your opinion on Ellen Ripley? In the original Alien movie (1979), the protagonist was originally written as a man. Later, the director decided to cast Sigourney Weaver as the main character, so he changed the role to female (with very little editing). From Wikipedia: She's considered one of the most iconic science fiction characters. So would you say she's badly written, since all they did was change the role from male to female? I won't lie, I am very biased. Ellen Ripley is one of my all-time favorite characters.
Nah, we're all from Earth (and the thesis of that book has been pretty thoroughly dismissed, as I understand it). But I agree that, depending on your story, you might have to do a lot of changing to some stories. Like, the stories where the MCs gender is really important. If you wrote a novel about the first woman to fly a fighter jet or the first man to undergo a controversial new embryo-implantation procedure, you'd need to do some serious changing! But if your story is about a futuristic space-farer, a la Ripley, it'd be easier.
There seems to be disagreement on this point, though it's not disagreement that changes your point. Some sources state that all of the roles were written as gender-neutral, so that it wasn't a change--but that makes your point stronger.
I don't disagree that it is possible to change the gender, with little editing, depending on the story, and how you want to portray the main character. Like Dragon Turtle pointed out, a typical male reaction vs. a female's reaction is usually quite different. In Games of Thrones, there was a girl portraying herself as a boy, and a swords-woman who came across quite manly. There are exceptions, as in Ripley. I guess I was thinking about my own writing. Recently, I finished up a book with a male protagonist. Someone suggested it may be a better sell to have a woman protagonist; same story, different gender. I thought no way! First of all, it's creative nonfiction, a true story. But, even if I were willing to do that, I'd have to reread and edit certain areas to fit the female POV. We can mold our characters however we choose, it just needs to be believable to the reader.
I added some bolding to the above - I think this line has two ideas in it that I'd want to unpack. The first is the idea of "typical". We may or may not want to be writing a "typical" character. I mean, probably our character is exceptional in SOME way, since we've decided s/he's worth writing a book about, but that way may or may not be related to gender. So if you want to write a character who behaves in a gender-typical way, then you need to worry about this, but if your character doesn't behave in a gender-typical way, that's cool, too! The second idea is the suggestion that "usually quite different" is uniform across space and time. At some points in western history women have been generally considered to be totally disinterested in sex, with men having to seduce and cajole them into physical intimacy. At other points in western history, women have been considered to be completely controlled by their sexual desires to the point that they cannot be expected to be rational human beings. I really don't think women have changed at a biological level; it's just social attitudes that have changed. So I don't think we can determine, really, how the differences we may consider typical are actually based on biological differences vs. those based on social attitudes. Game of Thrones is set in mythical kingdom with dragons and frozen zombies--I wouldn't be too surprised if their expectations of gender roles were also different!
I'm a redhead too, but I have a pretty "cool" temper - like, when I get mad I get cold and start plotting bloody (but secret) revenge.
Is it possible that the quote below was just a mistake of some sort? Because everything you've been saying since seems to be in complete opposition to it.
That wasn't really what I took from Dragon Turtle's post, and it seems in complete opposition to the link that Dragon Turtle posted. People's reactions depend on a mixture of personality and upbringing. In many societies, men and women's upbringing is very different, so that may skew the average response to any given event. But I absolutely can't agree wth "usually quite different". I'd so with "sometimes somewhat different", depending on how strongly society pushes a specific difference in a specific situation.
