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  1. TheApprentice

    TheApprentice Senior Member

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    How many of you use outlines?

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by TheApprentice, Jul 28, 2018.

    I started writing without one and I really screwed it up. I am doing an outline now as I think an outline will really help. How many of you use outlines for your writing? I know some just get right into it.
     
  2. Nariac

    Nariac Contributor Contributor

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    I wish I had begun with an outline. Would have saved a lot of wasted time and rewrites trying to sort stuff out.
     
  3. TWErvin2

    TWErvin2 Contributor Contributor

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    While some authors are very successful (and prolific) writing without outlines, a large number find them beneficial, some even necessary for success.

    I create a rough outline in a spiral notebook, listing where the novel should start, how it will end, and some major plot points/events along the way. I also include special notes on descriptions, events, dialogue, characters, etc.

    I use this, knowing that it is fluid and can be altered. What an outline does do is that it offers direction, and helps me avoid plot holes and writing myself into a corner.

    A way to look at it is mapping out a vacation road trip. You know where you'll start, and where you hope to end, and some of the anticipated places to stop along the way (and what you expect to see there). Along the way, of course, you make detours, stop at unexpected places and the like. Also, knowing where I am going in the story (trip) it gives me direction, something to write toward. Thus, writers block isn't an issue, at least for me, and I think this is a major part of the reason.

    Good luck with your outline effort, TheApprentice.
     
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  4. Linz

    Linz Active Member

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    Most of my outline is in my head - I know where it starts and ends, but I do have plot points written down.
     
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  5. BlitzGirl

    BlitzGirl Contributor Contributor

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    I am similar. I will at the very beginning write down the overall plot and major scenes that I know of, but after that I keep it all in my head (or I vent about things to one of my good friends online, and that at least gets the ideas out into the open). Outlines can be hard to do for me because major scenes may end up not happening in the exact order I planned them in, and improvised/new scenes can vastly change the entire rest of the story sometimes, so I find them to be a bit tedious and time-consuming. But, again, I do write quite a bit down when I am first figuring out the story, before I start writing the actual story.
     
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  6. Spirit of seasons

    Spirit of seasons Active Member

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    Outlines are my cryponite. I started out with a snowflake (read snowflake method) that grew into an avalanche as the story progressed.

    I think a strong grounded setting or canvas for your characters is key. Evergreen began with a lonely mountain covered by a forest next to a lake. Each story location is used multiple times thoughout the naritive, like taking a slideshow of pictures that paint the landmarks in ever increasing detail. The glacier, the sundial stone, a town on the coast, the mountain.

    Brainstorming helps me to get my ideas down. Every time I made any kind of outline the story felt ridged and forced. Evergreen is an outline free endeavour. It gets easier as you go along since you can reverse engineer the missing scenes when you have a critical mass of story.

    Figure out your characters and small bits of setting without Worldbuilding. Let your brain fill in the gaps. When I think of a forest on a mountain slope I try to imagine what being there would be like, the trees boulders, cliff faces, creeks and streams, etc. Use all five senses.

    Also try to think of a one sentence conflict or story arch then expand it from there.
     
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  7. Writersaurus

    Writersaurus Member

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    I write spontaneously myself. Don't like outlines - I like not knowing where my story is going to end up. If I'm writing without a plan though, I tend to do that on a computer so as it doesn't matter if I run out of steam or don't like where my story is going. If it's done on paper I tend to be more careful - otherwise that's valuable paper wasted. I just take a pause, and 'play' the next chapter in my head before being pen-happy.
     
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  8. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I may outline this thing when the first draft is done.
     
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  9. DK3654

    DK3654 Almost a Productive Member of Society Contributor

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    I have some rough outlines for my WIP that I've been using.
    In some ways though, they are just a result of me coming up with scattered pieces of a story rather than just sitting down and doing it. But at least I have a plan! :p
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  10. Stormsong07

    Stormsong07 Contributor Contributor

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    Copied and pasted from my progress journal:

    I have one of those 5 subject spiral notebooks. The first section is just ideas- rough outlines, character bios, plot notes, world settings, a rough map sketch, random scene outlines, pretty much everything and anything that occurred to me as I was first starting out. Stuff jotted in the margins, stuff crossed out and re-written, little notes in headers and footers, the works. The next section of the notebook is for rough drafts, aka, handwriting parts of the story when I'm not near a computer, so it's got random segments of my story written out by hand. The next section is my world-building section, where I outline all my ideas about the world- the countries, the governments, the military, maps that I've drawn, how magic works, all that sort of stuff. The next section is for my story arcs. Where I actually have my arcs plotted out in official outline form. Example:
    Main Plot
    I. Amberfield
    A. Kaelie's ordinary life
    B. Visit from Roses
    C. Mill explosion
    D. Riderdawn
    1. Encounter with male rider
    2. Decision to go to Rosehold.
    E. Almen's delivery
    1. Revelations about family (See sub-plot III, Kaelie's family)
    F. Departure
    1. Kaelie on horseback.
    2. Ambush on the road (See sub-plot II, King Jereth)

    Then my final section of my spiral is for research notes. Topics I have looked up so far: the growing seasons, medieval insults, how far a league is, notes on what made Harry Potter good, how medieval laundry worked, time and measurement notes (fortnight, sennight, furlong, firkin, etc), notes from Stein on Writing, the explosiveness of flour in a mill, etc.
     
  11. Edward M. Grant

    Edward M. Grant Contributor Contributor

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    I used to, but don't any more. I typically have some idea of a few scenes that will probably appear at some point in the story, but the rest I just make up as I go along.
     
  12. CaptainNapalm75

    CaptainNapalm75 Member

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    Yes, please. My brain is such a tangle, I need the organization of an outline to keep my head from hurting.
     
  13. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    It's outlines that tangle my brain. I don't know why that is, but the more I try to plan things out and organize my thoughts, the less any of it makes sense. When I started my novel I didn't have a computer. I was scribbling in a plain old notebook. Then I tried to list the chapters with at least placeholder names that would give me some sort of idea where the novel was going. I also made some notes, but I don't really know if the plot was clear or even if there was a plot. It wasn't a complete plan by any means, and I didn't exactly know where the story was going, but I thought that this would help. A few months later I got a computer, but I didn't go back to my notebook, not the outline nor the hand-written prose I had been working on. It just wasn't really the story I wanted to write and even though I had put some thought into somewhat of a plan, this story wasn't going in the direction I wanted. It wasn't all that exciting. Are planned things ever as exciting as the things that surprise us? So, I scrapped it all. I kept a few characters and my novel's title, but it's now a murder mystery and a lot more fun. And there is no outline now so I have no idea who did it, but I'm pretty happy with what I've got so far. If I had stuck with my original concept and tried to follow my (even loose) outline, I wouldn't have this story. Sure, I could have made myself finish what I started. And in my old version I thought I knew how I wanted it to end. But looking back on it I think it would have been so boring and stupid. I don't know if it was my idea that was boring or that sort of knowing what was coming and taking out a lot of the guess work, but things seemed to get boring and pointless fast the more I tried to plan it out.
     
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  14. SolZephyr

    SolZephyr Member Supporter

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    I have an extensive outline myself. I've found that the further into the story I get, the more I deviate on the details, but it's been helpful to me so far, in that it at least gives me a place to start in each chapter.

    That said, I am really trying hard to have exactly forty chapters, plus or minus one at the most. For that reason, the outline is very helpful.

    Honestly though, I find keeping notes on characters, cultures, and the world itself have been more beneficial than the actual outline, at least in terms of moving the story forward. I see outlines as "what could be," but the notes are "what is."
     
  15. Iain Sparrow

    Iain Sparrow Banned Contributor

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    I've come to the same place in the process.
    I'd been writing without a net for a year now, and for the most part I think it was better not having a detailed outline. The story needed to develop by its own means, and so it did. But those days are long over! I now spend a good week or two on the outline alone before diving into the next chapter, even writing short vignettes to get a feel for things.
     
  16. Irina Samarskaya

    Irina Samarskaya Senior Member

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    My outline is in my head. It's regularly being rewritten, since the characters drive the story I am writing. And trying to predict the actions of dozens of moving pieces can be rather exhausting, so I just let the words appear in front of me and the book finish itself.
     
  17. Cloudymoon

    Cloudymoon Member

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    Hi there. I think we are all different, but I do an outline and agree with everything TWErvin2 said above. If anything, my outline is even more detailed, but I find this gives me the confidence to get on and write! Things can always be changed as you go along.
     
  18. Philliggi

    Philliggi Member

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    I tried to write a book many moons ago, with an outline, and got about ten pages in before it got binned. Forgotten about never to be seen again.
    I got bored with it all. It took the fun out of writing, and I felt like it was akin to a train travelling along the tracks. No room for detour, you knew exactly where you were going and needed to approach each station at exactly the right speed or you would overshoot.
    I've just completed my first draft of my first full length novel, having written it off the cuff. I knew what the story was about. I knew the characters involved and I knew major chapters that needed to happen, but I didn't know when, and I only knew the ending myself as it was going down on paper.

    Sure, there are plot holes, and I'm not even sure how feasible one of the major sub plots is, but after putting my doubts on here others have convinced me that's what the editing process is all about.

    It might have it's flaws doing it the way I've done it, but I don't think it would even exist if I had outlined it
     
  19. fjm3eyes

    fjm3eyes Member

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    Ah, outlines. What to do about outlines? Perhaps,this is the reason I don't choose to write novels. I cam see choosing an outline to write a novel, but short stories are what I choose to write, for several reasons.
     
  20. graveleye

    graveleye Senior Member

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    Pantser here, for the most part. I just sit down and start typing and after a writing session, I revise before I begin writing the next day. I pull the plot along in my head, and mold it like clay as I go.
    That's part of the excitement for me. I have an expectation of how I want the story to go, but it's fluid as I write and the variables help change the story.

    Then, sometimes I'll change something and there will be the butterfly effect which can be annoying, but also exciting. If I stuck directly to an outline I would miss out on all that.
    That said, I do carry around a theme book and write myself notes and thoughts and so forth. It's not completely random.
     
  21. anotherghost

    anotherghost Member

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    Yep, I definitely feel like I need that initial structure going in. Mostly to give a proper foundation to a character/story before launching deeper into the finer details of the narrative.
     
  22. Luke Andrew

    Luke Andrew Member

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    Well, something that has helped me actually (it might sound kind of silly) is to sit down and do an outline of my outline. By that I mean I determine what elements of the story I need to flesh out before I write so that my outline is the most effective. I start off by writing down what I want to accomplish with the story or what I want it to be like, for example: A story with themes surrounding the importance of families and why it’s important to work hard and sacrifice for our own family. So then I’ll be focused on characters and I’ll flesh them out a fair amount. I’ll want lots of interesting and real stakes/conflicts about families in the story so I’ll work on outlining those too along with some nice turning points. But I won’t focus a ton on developing the setting, it’ll just kind of develop as I go. Another example though would be a story that I wanted magic to be a big part of and I wanted to focus on how the magic affects the world and the lives of the characters. So my outline would be more focused on the magic system and building an interesting world to go with it.

    This has helped me, I hope it will be helpful for you all too.
     
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  23. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I think that's what I do: I write an outline of an outline. But then I never make the actual outline. A lot of it I just keep in my head with some small notes to remind me what's supposed to be in my head. Mainly themes, dynamics, and gags... kind of like what you said.
     
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  24. Amontillado

    Amontillado Senior Member

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    Outlines work, but I think for general discussion of technique and effectiveness the term outline masks what really goes on.

    Think of a continual metamorphosis, either stepwise by breakthroughs or by gradual mutation, from a gleam in the mental eye to published work. Some people put those first thoughts down on paper in mind maps, some in outlines, and some in fully wrought prose likely requiring extensive repair.

    Every story has a beginning, middle, and end, both in terms of plot and creative process.

    For my dwindling years, even though they are likely plenty, I don't want to create stories or essays slowly. Mind maps are where I inventory related ideas for a story, outlines are how I write my first draft. They are quick and they cut through to problems. In a few minutes I see how to generate interest. Right now I'm working on a blog post about writing in plain text. It was turning out rather dull until I realized I had started with a text editor and complete sentences.

    A quick timeout to list my ideas in outline form, a few minutes to drag and drop re-order my screed and add a few notes, and my essay actually only took two keystrokes to scrub of false starts. Command-A, backspace. In Windows, that would typically be Control-A, backspace. Your methods may vary. Likely you are a more successful writer than I, so trust my ideas with some sense of moderation.

    A side note, here, regarding complete sentences. Most of my teachers could not be pleased under any circumstances. If I wrote something, the only ground it could break would be new rules for what not to do. Those same teachers insisted I outline, which I hated as a youth. They would also spew bile at the idea of writing in sentence fragments. At the same time, they would praise their classroom pets for wonderful outlines. Written, of course, with sentence fragments for most outline entries.

    As public education damaged goods, I digress.

    It doesn't matter whether your "outline" is a Harvard style hierarchy, stick figure cave paintings, or 20,000 words. Some process puts the clay on the potter's wheel. By whatever means the payload gets to the wheel, it's clay, not a finished pot. A lot of people think that first step should be in outline form, but it really doesn't matter.

    The Rolling Stones
    start composing songs as sort of a group primal chant, or so I've heard. Somebody will scream out something like "I'm shattered!" Pretty soon, a new hit is in progress.

    My first primal belch is usually in the form of an outline, which I find quicker than 20,000 words of replaceable prose. The 20K is probably the better approach for a lot of people, but it takes too long for me.

    Of course, the important thing is to write by any means necessary.
     
  25. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    I pants for short stories, outline for most novels. If I don't outline I have key points that need to be hit and I know my beginning, turning point and ending. For my recent first draft I wrote scenes out of sequence and then assembled them into some kind of order creating my outline. Depending on what you write you shouldn't need to filling in too big a storyline as a lot of genres have their own points that need to be met. Basically if you keep four things straight -- your story goals and your characters goals, their motivation and stumbling blocks -- you should be good to go. Mind you, those things can be the hardest things to sort out in a novel.
     

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