That hasn't been my experience. I confess I'm only a wanna-be writer—actually, less than a wanna-be, as I don't even aspire to be published. I'm content to write stories as a hobby. Regardless of my accomplishments and ambitions I do have my own storytelling intuitions and theories. Similar to @Irina Samarskaya I prefer the term story over ideas. In order to be precise I'll take a swing at defining them. In this context when I refer to 'story' I mean everything one dreams up outside of the nuts and bolts of the written word, word choice, and overall prose quality. So things like plot, setting, tone, characters, conflict, narrative themes, scenes outlines, etc. It's undeniable both writing and story are essential for crafting fiction. And imo, truly great fiction writers are masters of both. But just because I'm certain both are important doesn't mean I feel they are perfectly equal in importantance. You believe everyone has great ideas, and again, that's not my experience. I don't think everyone can conjure great characters. I don't think everyone can spin fully realized plots that their target audience will treasure. I have no reason to believe everyone can consistently dream up scenes that develop the main character(s) and/or move the plot forward. I suspect that's because idea generation is more innate than skill-based. If I can use a guitar analogy. If one were to study guitar playing, most of the information and lessons they will find will cover music theory. They'll learn the anatomy of the instrument, how to read music, the dozens of scales they can play, picking technique, playing in time, etc. Strangely enough, they will struggle to find helpful information on how to be more musical or melodic in their playing. It's not because playing melodically isn't important—it is, it's just incredibly difficult to teach. Imo, it's largely innate. I contend this is the case for story or ideas in fiction.
@Bone2pick -- I will admit that I constantly worry I've run out of ideas. I don't plan out my writing very much if at all. I don't have an ideas folder. And when I write something I think is really good, I'm almost positive it's my last good idea, but that's never true. Ideas just come to us and we get them all the time. The reason we didn't have to worry about generating ideas is because our brains manage to do that just fine. Our life experiences can often play a role in what our fiction is like and what our ideas are like. If I get really stuck, I go out and live a little. A night out with friends, a date, a trip to the store. Things happen everywhere all the time, and that generates ideas all the time. There is a lot of writing required from MFA candidates. It's not about studying theory and such. It's about becoming professional writers. To get into an MFA program a big part of the application is a writing sample (20-50 pages depending on the school). And you better believe it's the writing that counts. I have a really hard time believing that lack of ideas is what's hurting a story. But bad writing can defiantly kill a story or even keep it from really coming together as a story. Sure, there are some literature requirements for getting a writing degree, but the most important thing is the thesis which is about 150 pages of fiction that is supposed to be written at a publishable level to earn an MFA degree. I strongly believe that the writing is far more important. Ideas are easy. Writing is hard. And until you're writing at a certain level, the ideas almost mean nothing. I was there before. My writing hasn't always been as good as it is now, and I'm not saying I'm great or anything, but I have had some success or luck. I've spent years working on writing. And even though I worry about my ideas drying up, it hasn't happened. Some early ideas of mine were pretty good, I think. But until I could really write and write well, it didn't matter how good those ideas were. Publishing or not publishing doesn't matter so much. Sure, you can write whatever you want and if you don't care about publishing, maybe you don't care how good the writing is. But if you want to try and publish, you'll learn very quickly that the way a story is executed has as much to to with the story as your idea. More so even because your competition has good ideas to and they can write well. I'll say it again. Writing is not easy. But it's foolish for anyone to think an idea will carry a story alone. Ideas don't trump writing, not at all, not when you want to publish and get paid for your work. What you really need is both. I don't see the point in really trying to separate the two and argue which is better or needed more. But I see on this forum all the time people posting about their idea folders or carrying a notebook around to write down ideas. A hundred ideas aren't going to make you a better writer, but a good writer can just as easily have a hundred ideas. Even though I get nervous about running out of good ideas, I know it's never going to happen. Writers write. And if the writing is a problem so is every other part of the story.
@deadrats I agree with much of your reply. Not all of it, but much of it. I'll try and get to the heart of the issue. Would you agree with me that it's reasonable to separate story from writing? Allow me to provide an example: The Great Gatsby and The Sun Also Rises are similar stories in terms of their themes, period, and tone. And I think it's safe to say both Fitzgerald and Hemingway are considered generationally talented writers. I'm comfortable describing them as such, for whatever that's worth. I've read both books and I greatly prefer The Sun Also Rises. My enjoyment of one over the other wasn't close, but I don't consider that an indictment on Fitzgerald as a writer; the man could write with the best of them. It was the story that made all the difference for me. The characters, the relationships, the conflict, the resolution, etc. Fitzgerald's prose was superb, yet, I could never invest in The Great Gatsby. Story and writing are both important, but I can't help but give the edge to story.
@Bone2pick -- I don't really see the point in trying to separate story from writing. That's not what most publishers or agents are going to do. It's the whole package. My biggest argument is that an idea (no matter how good it is) is never going to make up for something that is poorly written. I agree with the poster or two that said writing is more important until you're writing at a certain level. Without getting to that level it almost doesn't matter what sort of ideas you have. I'm not saying everyone has to be a Hemingway, but this is a tough business and the better you can write, the better your chances are at publishing. Of course, ideas and the actual story matter, but they're really only going to matter if you can write well enough to pull them off. And I say you meaning the general you not you personally since I've never seen your work. The actual writing is much harder than coming up with story ideas. If it wasn't than anyone could be a writer. But readers want something they can follow. Good writing doesn't mean the writing has to stand out as such. Good writing can often go unnoticed and let the story shine. Bad writing can be such a distraction or hard to follow that the story doesn't even matter because readers just can't get into it or follow. I understand the appeal of favoring ideas over writing and why people believe or want to believe it's true. Ideas are always going to be easier than the actual writing. Everyone's going to have an opinion on the books they read. And, of course, we're not going to like everything we read equally. But the best idea with a shitty execution isn't going to be enough to make up for shitty writing. That's how I see it. I think it's easier for people to have opinions on a story than it is to argue that ideas are more important than the actual writing of them. Also, I just wanted to say I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot a few weeks back. I've been struggling with some stuff and didn't mean to take it out on you.
