Hi everyone, First time posting a thread here, so feel free to remove/redirect me to a better forum! I’ve been writing on a project for a year or so. It started out just for fun, I created a bunch of characters and a world for them and explored their stories and relations, which eventually turned out to have a lot of potential. So I decided to pretend to be a real writer for a while and go for goal to create a novel (I know the chances to get published are small to nonexisting, but I want to at least try). Now, a half year later, I can conclude that the story itself is in my “humble” opinion good enough. There’s still a lot of work to do, and a lot of editing. But roughly, it is at least the length of a novel, which was the goal. My writing however… some parts are acceptable, some parts I love but there’s no consistency in the quality. I know the way I want to tell the story and I know the purpose of every scene, but somehow it sometimes seems impossible to get it right. Or in other words: I've got a decent story, but I'm lacking some writing skills. So my question is: how can I be consistent in quality when I write, and how can I improve? And when a scene works out in your head but not on paper, should you rewrite it until you get it right or just try out something else? And how do you keep your style of writing the same over a hundred or so pages? (And on a side note: is it possible to “sell” a story to someone else to write?)
Write, write, write and read some. The only way to get better at writing is writing and consume things that others have written. If you're stuck it sometimes helps talking it out with someone. Otherwise rewrite, delete or give it a break. ETA: Getting critique or at least another opinion is also good. People usually think too highly - or lowly - about themselves and it's hard to know on your own.
Keep going until you're better. Writing is a learned skill, with many different aspects to it. These skills take time to develop, and during that time you must write. You should definitely be reading. Figure out what good writing looks like, and what distinguishes it from the bad. If you're serious about it, and want to publish, you should study the craft. Watch interviews and panels with writers you like. Better yet, see if you can't find a video class; there are, or there used to be, a whole course of videos by Brandon Sanderson on YouTube. Read articles. Invest in books on the subject. This will not only help develop your understanding, but hopefully also serve to inspire. You should engage in the writing community, soliciting feedback (and giving it out), exchange tips and opinions, get inspired, get pumped, and all of that. You could do far worse than this place, I'm sure. The important thing is to allow yourself to write poorly. And hey, you've already drafted a whole novel! That's more than I can claim. You're conscious of the flaws in your writing, without letting it blind you to the good parts. You're obviously aware that scenes need to perform, and you seem to be quality-conscious. That's a very healthy state of mind for a writer to be in! There's no cover-all solution to that question, I'm afraid. It must be solved on a case-by-case basis. This is something all writers are going to struggle with, and in my opinion it's one of the most difficult parts of the craft. If it works in your head, chances are the flaw lies in execution. You should at least try rewriting it, or consider that it's not the scene itself that gives you pause, but it's position in the story. You should always be open to the idea that it might need to go, and don't be afraid to put it aside it for later if it gives you too much trouble. Chances are your subconscious mind will sort it out while you go about your day. With practice, of course, and with trial and error through revision. Best of luck to you.
My main advice: Keep writing. From somewhere, I remember someone stating the figure of half a million words as being a good glob of practice. Or maybe it was a million--the equivalent of ten novels. That doesn't mean it takes everybody that long, and it doesn't mean that whole million will be wasted words. But it does mean that you need to write a lot. Have you gotten any feedback on your writing? That might speed up the process--others might see flaws that would take you a while to see. I rarely have fewer than five editing passes for a scene. I just made some new changes to a scene that has probably been heavily edited/rewritten a good twenty times. Edited to add: This is in large part because I enjoy polishing. If I didn't, I'd stop the first-draft editing at the point where the bit is coherent enough for me to know what I meant when I return to it later. On the other hand, I think that many people don't really edit at all in the first draft. And some people edit very little in any draft; they somehow have the gift of making it come out right the first time. I'll never have that gift, and that's fine. Can you give some detail on how it's changing? This may just be a matter of writing so much that you eventually get comfortable with a specific writing voice. But I'm curious. Doubtful. The writing is usually the expensive part; while it needs inspiration, usually the person doing the writing is also the person providing the inspiration.
You could hire a ghost writer but those are expensive, and you're probably never gonna make the money back. Hang around, learn from the forum, and when you meet the requirements to use the Workshop, post something up there for critique. Writing, getting feedback, and editing is basically the only way forward. And in the meantime, read a lot.
You're probably going to get the same advice from everyone. Write badly until you write well. It's kind of like picking a fight when you know you're goin to get beat up. Pretty much no one writes a good novel the first time. Be prepared to throw it away, and start again. Post short bits on forums like this but DON'T ARGUE people are only giving you their opinions and I've got lot of good advice on this board. It's just advice, you don't have to take it. Don't take my advice for example: I've been at it for 40 years and still haven't gotten it right.
Yeah, just keep writing. It takes time. I'd also suggest you pay close attention to the books you like and try to figure out exactly why you like them -- study writing that you think is good, work out what exactly makes it good, and emulate that.
Congratulations! This is what it feels like to be a writer. I feel like I should buy you shots for initiation. Practice and judicious editing. I know it's not easy, but the fact that you can recognize problems with your writing means you're already growing as an artist. So try not to get too disheartened because it does get better with experience.
No, not really. I should, I think now. Thanks for the advice [/QUOTE]Can you give some detail on how it's changing? This may just be a matter of writing so much that you eventually get comfortable with a specific writing voice. But I'm curious..[/QUOTE] Good question. I think it's because I sometimes find some kind of flow and write a lot in a few hours, which is just different from my "usual" style. I try to recreate it, when not in that flow but it just doesn't work. And then I do try o learn from other authors which influences my writings and gives me new ideas. It surprised me how hard it is to keep track when writing such a long story.
Haha, I had this concerns when I decided to make it into a novel, that I'd have to throw it away eventually. Maybe I have to write another one before finishing this?
I have this problem. Since I do go through multiple editing passes, that often smooths things out to a more consistent voice, though of course I find myself worrying whether I may have taken the best stuff down to the level of the average. That worry usually fades when I re-read a month or two later, so I don't think that's what's happening. I hope.
Not really in it for the money, I'd hate to be that author that ruin a decent story by bad writing. This forum have some great advise, so I'll hang around
I dunno, be careful not to be too perfectionist either. I mean, Kafka never wanted his stuff published. Have some faith in yourself. Strive to be the best but allow yourself to be simply "good enough", if that makes sense. I learnt a phrase not too long ago - that it's about mastery, not perfection. Today I was watching a lady talk about her passion for cake decorating and she said, "I don't want to be perfect, because I always want to get better and perfection would almost feel like I'm stagnating." So strive for perfection, but don't ever try to be perfect, and enjoy the road to mastery which, in a way, can never be attained, but that's part of the fun.
Most of the time, an avid reader is going to make for a better writer. Read as much as you can. It really does make things easier. But writing is hard and takes a lot of work. Often revision is a much longer and harder process than getting the first draft down. This is probably why a lot of people quit or don't make it. You have to let the story breathe before you can fix it. And then let it breathe again. And fix it again. I wouldn't worry about style at all. I think that's something that can trip people up. Style just sort of happens and and changes and evolves as you become a better and more experienced writer. But when writers start to defend things by saying it's their style, it tends to hold them back. If you want to be a writer, that's bigger than one story. Keep that in mind. A lot of writers have to write a sort of practice novel. We never want our first novel to be a practice novel and have nothing come of it, but what comes of it could be preparation to write something really great. I wrote a practice novel. I didn't want it to be a practice novel. I wanted to sell it and become rich and famous. That didn't happen. But what did happen is I got a lot better. I became a better writer and better storyteller as a result of it. I also write short stories which can be just as hard as novels but without taking so much time, perhaps. One of my first attempts wasn't so bad. I really liked the story and thought the writing was pretty good. It wasn't until I opened a blank document and rewrote it without looking at the original and allowed myself to change anything and everything that it became something publishable. Way more work than I thought it should be, but I sold it. The changes were worth it, but it was years after the first draft before it became what I wanted it to. And that was just a short story. Point being, we need time and practice to get better. And those two things matter so much.
I'm with what everyone has said so far: keep writing and reading. Also, it wouldn't hurt to address the parts of your writing you feel are problematic (pacing, dialogue, etc.) by reading articles on the internet on how to improve those areas.
@Ellara Zemar: If you have actually finished your first novel, you are way ahead of a lot of people on this site and elsewhere. You are no longer "pretending" to be a writer, you are a writer who has finished that first piece. What you have is first draft blues. First drafts are always terrible, they have to be terrible, because you started the story perhaps thinking it would go one way, ended it another way, and also learned a lot about writing along the journey. Odds are the last chapters are much better than the first few, as you "got your sea legs under you" and learned to write with the flow. So congratulate yourself on a job well-done, enjoy a good drink of whatever you like to drink to celebrate victory, then go back and start the distasteful process of editing it, to turn it from a finished project to a polished one that shines like a new dime. Well done, and good luck.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'bad' writer. Do you mean you make lots of grammatical, spelling and punctuation errors? Or things of this nature? Or do you mean (what I think you mean, from what else you said) that you're struggling to produce a consistent story, or a consistent writer's voice? If it's grammar giving you trouble, I'm afraid there isn't any shortcut. You'll need to study it to some exent. But first you need to find out what your errors are. That's fairly easily done here, in the Workshop section of the forum. If you ask specifically for grammatical analysis and help, I'm sure there are lots of people here who would jump in and help you. In my opinion you will never be a good writer if you haven't got the basics. However, based on your OP here, I'd say you are fine in that department. Since you have so much written, you'll have a lot to work on, which is an excellent place to start. I know I didn't read a single how-to book until after I'd completely finished my first draft and was already getting feedback. I just wrote what I wanted to write, using only the knowledge I've picked up over the years of being a voracious reader. So I know what a good book 'sounds' like. But how to create one? I was a total newbie. These how-to books were immensely helpful to me, because they made me look at what I'd written, and see where things weren't working and how they could be improved. Find yourself some really good how-to books. Try not to go with the ones that focus on 'sales,' but rather go for the ones that focus on good writing. You'll know when they hit on a topic you need. You'll suddenly think YES, I do that all the time. Or YES I know what's wrong with that bit now. Or YES, why didn't I think of that myself? It's a slow process, but this is actually a very fun part of the writing process. This is where your vision gets shaped into something that will strike your readers the same way the story strikes you.
Welcome to the world of writing. And welcome to that gap between what you want to write and what comes out -- that's the point at which the work begins. You've got the proper frame of mind, you sense the flaws. I'd suggest two things, at least: first, read the piece as though someone else has written it, and see what strikes you as dense or confusing or cliched, or whatever, and try to fix it. Second, go over the piece and look for wordiness and awkward phrasing. Then do it again. Watch out especially for phrases or images you thought were so good when you first put them down -- chances are they are either corny or so blatantly obvious or forced or cute that they undercut the work -- it's called "killing your darlings" and it's a necessary, if painful, part of writing. Bottom line, that first draft is only that, first, and it needs more work. Every time. As for style, it's what remains when you've honed the writing. You can't force it or assume it. It's your voice, hidden under all the detritus of the early drafts. I don't think anyone will "buy" a story line, since it's such a vague concept that no one owns it. But you could perhaps find a co-writer.
It's the latter, I think. Actually, that's exactly the problem I think. I have the scene in my head but when I read my text, I can't see it. (Well, I think my first problem is to identify exactly why it is so). Do you have any particular suggestions to which books to start with?
For me, this is an iterative process. I see a scene in my head. I write a thing. I read the thing. It produces a scene in my head. It's not the same scene that was in my head. It's never the same scene. I edit the thing. I read the thing. It produces a scene in my head. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Eventually I end up with a scene that pleases me. It's still not the scene that was in my head, but I'm pleased However--this cycle, over time, has gotten shorter and shorter and less and less visible. I suspect that I'm slowly learning what effects I can achieve with writing, and so I less often try to achieve an effect that is simply impossible for me. The subconscious mind that produces scenes takes into account what can be achieved by the written word. Ann Patchett's words on "killing the butterfly" may also be relevant: http://www.worriedwriter.com/2015/06/18/ann-patchett-on-writing-killing-the-butterfly/
I'll answer! For stuff that's more like the philosophy of writing, rather than really specific advice, I like: Anne Lamott's bird by bird Alice Mattison's The Kite and the String Betsy Lerner's The Forest for the Trees I also like The Getaway Car--a longish essay linked to in the page that I link to in my above post. I like Elizabeth Gilbert's Big Magic, but it's about creativity in general and not so specifically about writing. Stephen King's On Writing is a lot of fun to read, but I see it more as a writer's biography of his writing life than a book about writing. Returning to add: Huh. I didn't actually answer your question, did I? You're looking for more nuts and bolts books? I don't have any of those that make me say "Ooh! You must read this!"
@Ellara Zemar, David Poyer is a friend of mine who has written about 40 books since the 1970s, modern naval fiction, and his advice on editing is to edit until you can't stand to look at it again, then edit it some more. Actually make a couple of passes through, the first to pick up the obvious SPaG, the second for story continuity, character arcs, etc, then get one or more beta readers to give you a critique. They will find things you can't because you are now too familiar with the story. My wife got a critique on one of her books, that she had too many things "off-camera", implied but never revealed... because they were crystal clear in her head. She just hadn't written them down. So again, congratulations!
Have you started editing it yet? Cause it sounds like you still have a raw first draft and if you're trying to compare that to a finished work then you're being way to hard on yourself. Editing is what's going to pull your book together. It's a rare writer or maybe an experienced writer that can pull off a first draft sounding like the last draft. I can go through twelve rounds of editing.
