There are some who don't care about the characters when thinking about the plot, but focus on the setting. Some on the other hand keep plot tied to characters. What are your thoughts about this? #12
I'm trying to remember how my novel got started ...it was kind of a combination. The idea that sparked it was tied to setting/time and place. However, the characters soon took over, and the story ended up with my original story focus settled in deep background. The characters' lives became the focus instead. I have been thinking up stories since I was a little girl, and setting always provided the initial impetus. I never thought up characters and then tried to fit them in somewhere. I always thought up a setting, then peopled it with characters and let their stories evolve. The setting just provides the framework within which I have to work. (No automobiles in 17th century England, for example.) So to answer your question directly - for me, setting comes first. But it always remains background and not the 'reason' for the story. How about you?
Despite banning. I will add my piece. I started with more of a plot concept, which was to the effect of a group of people who get powers with consequences. But after that very early point, I stuck with the characters I started to develop more than I did anything else. The current major plotlines I developed mostly in relation the characters, especially with backstory relevant stuff.
Yes, despite the banning of the OP, it is quite an interesting concept and I would be very interested in other member's opinions IMHO, to get really involved in a work it is necessary for the reader to get absorbed the characters so I would put character-building way ahead of plot and world-building, but this is one of the hardest things to do well. I believe that, to be done well, it has to be done without the reader noticing, and that is a hell of a skill. In my own work I find myself thinking "what happens next" more often than "how can I show x's generosity, y's kindness, or z's fetid core"; and this is something that I am actively trying to address Having said that - I am but one reader, and having had work read by a number of betas in the past, it is clear that some readers fall more into the "I want to feel what they feel" category, and others into the "what happens next", and, anyway, who doesn't love a page-turner?!
Sometimes the plot can be more about 'the world' than it is about the characters, though. I think lots of epic fantasy and epic Sci-Fi comes into that category. (The Red Mars, Blue Mars, Green Mars series for example.) Even sometimes the 'family sagas' that were so popular back in the 1970s and 80s, where generations of families lived in the same location—the story is usually more about the location than it is about individual characters. Or James Michener's books (which I love) that are always about a particular place. He just uses characters to illustrate aspects of that place and its history. Nothing wrong with this kind of book, by the way. In fact, I love reading them. But they are different from character-based stories. However, books that are my favourites are character-based ones, so firmly set in a strongly-evoked setting that it's hard to separate the two. The story couldn't have happened anywhere else TO anyone else.
I go a bit of both. I'm current working on the second book in a potential series, and I do have ideas for a third book. In this case, the characters comes first. I love the characters and want to spend more time with them, so they come before the story. Or to be precise, I think of stories they could really enjoy taking part in. But for the most part, the story always comes first. If I come up with an idea that I really like, but doesn't fit the characters in the other series, I will gladly start a new series from scratch. It doesn't mean I will abandon the first series, but I can rather work on two sepererate series at once. In fact, I think this is quite healthy. I love books from Andy McDermott, Jussi Adler-Olsen and Camilla Lackberg, but they tend to be all the same after a while. I'm currently reading the 12th book from McDermott, and have the 13th downloaded on my Kindle. While it's great, it's just... been there, done that. Same goes with Adler-Olsen and Lackberg. They are both excellent writers, and I love their stories and characters. But after half a dozen books from each with the same characters in the same setting, it's starting to feel disturbingly familiar. At least Alder-Olsen has changed things up a bit with some unique, stand-alone books, and that really helps keeps things fresh.
I prefer, in many cases, to start with a prologue or some kind of preface to explain a basic idea of what is happening. Like, just an example, but one thing I wrote involved an alien invasion and it starts with a small drone we launched (in some fictional future) near the asteroid belt being obliterated by the alien ships, and the scene pans back and we see how there are thousands of these spaceships roaring towards Earth and how they'll arrive in mere days. On more than one occasion, especially as part of a larger series, I find a kind of "previously on..." segment that's like two paragraphs helps. Starting a story, I kinda figured introducing a character and subtly, as you describe their environment or what they're doing, going into describing the world and setting up what happened before diving into the genuine lore later. If possible, use both, the "previously on..." or preface and the set up. Like again, involving the alien fleet thing, the prologue or preface shows this fleet approaching Earth and says they'll be here in like six days or it's at least that far away...then we cut to the character introductions, show it's just a normal day on Earth, five days later. So we know that by the next day the shit hits the fan.
@jannert Thank you, if I ever get off my ass and get something published hopefully it'll be out someday lol
Hemingway’s first line in " A Moveable Feast" was: “Then there was the bad weather.” We are immediately in the scene right where he thought the story should begin. Regardless of how you start it, the story and theme should all be set up in the first few paragraphs.
Despite the ban, I will answer this. What is a plot with characters? And it doesn't mean it has to be humans or another race, can be animals as well. And what is a character without a plot? This last one has just established to our MC their goals and personal beliefs so the story can move on. So in conclusion, characters and plot complete each other.
Yeah, I mean I don't want to start a story with a description of how green the grass was or a description of a house on a hill unless it has something to do with the story and what is going to happen to the characters. If a story does start that way then there has to be some symbolism or foreshawdowing going on.
Interesting question even if the op is gone. I tend to use character to discover plot. Meaning the more conflict I can drum up the easier the plot forms. I do this all the time if I make a sweet robot -- I give him an owner that beats him - Not Pink. If I make a girl who is neglected by her parents during a divorce she meets a would-be pervert in the park - Only Ten for Pecking Order I had a virus that transformed certain people into beasts. I made the most of the conflict by separating twins. One turns, the other doesn't. For my WIP when I came up for the idea of a 14 year old child star I thought of what conflict I wanted to work with. And decided that instead of him being pleased he hates acting but is good at it. The best conflict I could think of to pair with that idea is someone who is ambitious of his talent and jealous - a director. Also I like dealing with creative jealousy - it's one of my recurring themes. Conflict for me is the glue that holds everything together, it creates and links characters to plot. Setting can be tied in as something that helps to best showcase everything. For setting I'm using a series of bedrooms that keeps showing the change in money/fame and loss of identity. And every place also has multi-identities driving home the unnerving idea that everything is a set.
@peachalulu said: "For my WIP when I came up for the idea of a 14 year old child star I thought of what conflict I wanted to work with." This may be *********off topic******** I immediately thought of Michael Jackson when you said this. He was a brilliant child star at 14 but he had a conflict with his father....and other things, like the loss of a childhood.
We can take inspiration from the fire triangle, oxygen+fuel+heat=fire, and create the story triangle, characters+plot+setting=story. Heat is igniter in the fire triangle, but any of the three elements of the story triangle can be the igniter. It doesn't matter if it's a cool character, a page turning plot, or an inspiring setting, the igniter is whatever gets us to say "wow, I've got to get this down on paper", and start the story.
Depends on what I'm writing. I usually write character-driven stories, in which case, I'll start with the characters, but if it's plot-driven, I'll start with the setting.
The process of developing my current book idea went roughly like this: Idea: I was listening to a podcast episode on Lovecraftian Horror, and had a “what if” thought that placed some of those ideas in a sci-fi universe. Plot: I developed a few of the ideas. Came up with the overarching conflict of the story, on a gallactic scale. I developed the ideas further and came up with a few scenes that should happen along the way. Setting: Sometime along this process, I decided on the overall setting of the universe, which tells what the world is like from a high level. Character: Later on I came up with the protagonist, then a cast of characters to go along as well. I got a feeling for their backgrounds and motivations, though didn’t write it down in super detail Writing: I started writing the story, weaving in character, setting, and plot. At this point I let the characters drive much of the nitty-gritty plot. The decisions that the characters make are determined by what they would do as people, not necessarily by what makes sense for the plot, though I did funnel events in such a way as to lead them to make the decisions that keep the story moving. If they get complacent, throw them into the frying pan and see how they try to get out. Then into the fire.
First I have something to say, and I find a character that can show that message to my intended readers. For instance, I wanted to show the plight of the Taino Indians after Columbus was in the Caribbean. Then I had to find an neutral character to tell the story through their eyes. I couldn't use the Indians or the Congo people as they would spin a bias view. The french farmers that were there at the time of my story would also have a slanted perspective. I couldn't use the local priest because he had lived there for ten years, so I ended up with a freshly transplanted nun and then the worse thing happened, I was stuck telling the story from a female perspective. Something that could have been written in a few months took three years. Maybe my way isn't the best after all.
I have a 70-page document on my computer that's nothing but fragments of stories. My day job requires me to create my own mental stimulation, or else I'll go nuts. Sometimes I'll come up with the idea for a character. Sometimes I'll see a scene, or hear a bit of dialogue. Sometimes I'll imagine a city, or a country, or a world with some defining "what if...?" attribute. I get home and write them all down exactly as I saw them at work. Eventually, a character will suddenly fit into a scene, in a world, and that's when I open a new document and start writing. Within a few pages, either a plot starts to grow in my mind, in which case I keep writing, or it never solidifies, in which case I copy what I have back into my notes and resume randomly imagining. Maybe something will come up later on that ties it all together. It's kind of like having a giant box full of pieces from fifty different puzzles. When I find a few that actually fit together, HOORAY! I can get started on trying to make that picture!
I prefer character driven stories, so my characters come first. I feel like you'll choose either plot or characters based on the type of book you want to write. But you do have to have a little bit of each, I think, in the beginning. For example, when I started the very first draft of my manuscript, I knew a very very small, basic amount of plot to help form the characters. Then I worked on developing the characters and I feel like the plot started to stem from their characterization.
I'm a reader. My current endeavor is a continuation of something I did back in the 6th grade on comparative myths. Since then, it has popped in and out of my mind several times. Once I put it to paper it sort of developed a life of its own. The characters appeared and have grown almost on their own volition. All I need to do now is learn to properly write. Grammar and punctuation were never my strong suit.
I'm reminded of a story, probably apocryphal, I heard when I was in the Navy about a guy going through BUDS (SEAL boot camp). Allegedly, one of the tasks the recruits had to perform was to swim across a pool in full gear, something like 80 pounds of crap strapped to their backs. Everyone dives in and starts swimming except for this one guy. This guy, he jumps into the water and sinks straight to the bottom. He then proceeds to hold his breath and slowly walk his ass across the bottom of the pool all the way to the shallow end. As soon as his head came out above the water and he started gasping for breath, the RDC Chief ripped him a new one. "What the **** do you think you're ****ing doing, shipmate‽" The recruit gasps and pants for a second, then looks at his RDC and says. "Chief, I can't swim." The Chief looks at him for a second, all quiet-like, then says "Well **** son, we can ****ing TEACH you how to swim!" The point being, technical skills can be taught, but heart and drive are inborn. **** son, we can ****ing TEACH you grammar!
Well, if this post is any indication of your grammar and punctuation skills, I wouldn't worry. It's mistake-free AND you seem to have a large vocabulary as well. I think it's probably best to just keep writing. If you are an avid reader, you will have developed an 'ear' for what works and what doesn't. As for mistakes in grammar and punctuation? They can easily be corrected at your obvious level of competence. What helped me to get started was to pretend I was telling my story to somebody I know. Somebody I knew would be eager to hear the story and would not be critical. (I chose my sister, whom I used to tell stories to when we were young.) I wrote the story in third person, but pretended I was reading it to her. Personalising your storytelling voice makes writing easier, in my opinion. You're not writing for the great critical 'they' out there. Instead, you are only keeping one person engrossed in your story. It's an odd trick, but it works.
Thank you Jannert. I'm now at about 110 'refined pages' and will post some up here once I'm past my two week quarantine. It was going to be a short story but has grown like my bread dough when I used too much yeast. Happy hoildays to you!
