Why so much Fantasy

Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by Steve Coombes, Jan 18, 2019.

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  1. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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  2. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    But you have to come up with everything, including the rules, and then you have to follow the rules.
     
  3. 18-Till-I-Die

    18-Till-I-Die Banned

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    Fantasy has kinda become a "stock" or basic concept in modern writing. Basically, everything has evolved into "Look mommy I played D&D!" which in and of itself was an exercise in "Look mommy I read Lord of the Rings!"

    So basically everything is some regurgitation of it, or the overwhelming majority is, and therefore they kinda slide into and out of fantasy tropes. With perhaps the sole exception of a few modern fantasy stories, almost every story has basically boiled down to that. Which is why the concept of cultural and technological stagnation is so pervasive: with a handful of exceptions, basically everything is "medieval world with magic, hero guy sword fights evil wizard". Even Game of Thrones devolves into this upon a deeper examination.

    There are exceptions: Avatar the Last Airbender, Final Fantasy, Warcraft, Warhammer Fantasy and a few others openly dispel this and create worlds where a deeper and more logical progression of technology and magic exists, but as a result have evolved so far beyond conventional High Fantasy that they're almost a genre onto themselves, and in fact terms like Elfpunk, Gunpowder Fantasy and Steampunk arose from this. And while it completely rebukes the original Tolkienian vision of elves and hobbits and magic rings, things like FF7 and Avatar and Warhammer Fantasy are ironically a more realistic and grounded vision of High Fantasy. Which ironically has basically divorced itself entirely from High Fantasy.
     
  4. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Nothing, recently. I mean, all my features were erased in a tragic eraser accident, but that was some time ago.

    Pay attention!
     
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  5. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    No - it appears that way at times on a writer forum - but to boil ‘fantasy genre’ down to ‘LoTR/Harry P is disparaging. In the circles of fantasy science such a reading would be regarded as mere wisdom of the ‘vapour trail guy’ at the cocktail party.
     
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  6. Nariac

    Nariac Contributor Contributor

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    Or, to make it even more complex, follow the rule 95% of the time, and know the 5% of the time when you can break the rules you made and ONLY break them then, or readers will notice and call bullshit. :p
     
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  7. Stormburn

    Stormburn Contributor Contributor

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    I think it will advance this topic if posters will clarify what 'easy' and 'easier' means in relation to writing in general, and fantasy in particular.
    Otherwise, @deadrats post is end all to this conversation, in my opinion.
     
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  8. cosmic lights

    cosmic lights Contributor Contributor

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    I don't have problems with their being so much Fantasy my main problems is that it all seems the same.
    My current book is a Fantasy/dystopian but that's because it's just the Genre it falls into. I normally write crime, thriller and suspense.
     
  9. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman Extradinor Contributor

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    No, Reality has always sucked! It's just more noticeable to a vast majority of people.

    However, Fantasy is a great escape from reality and offers a freedom you cannot achieve in reality. Which is why I hate people who say "That's unrealistic". That's the point.
     
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  10. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    Writer doesn't mean the same thing to all people.

    Folks with lives and jobs and are busy busy...or men...they get under the lamp with the screen in their eyes and make their private stories written a million billion miles away. It is their business and their pleasure. My Dad used to make model aeroplanes, and the same way he said - 'I wrote my life story once, and lost it on the hard drive.' And nobody ever reads those stories. Sometimes Junior finds them thirty years after. Sometimes they are special. They are special to junior.

    Some people express this escapism with dragons. Some say it writing about funny people on bus journeys, making them funnier only for fun. I'm not sure even if the activity even relates to writing genre in terms of a writer/reader relationship. It has more in common with 'outsider art' as I said before when I saw the documentary, the outsider artists painting rainbows on the asylum wall with their toothbrushes.

    Today they are priceless rainbows.

    Blowhard/sound of own voice syndrome on a Saturday night.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
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  11. Stormburn

    Stormburn Contributor Contributor

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    Normally I roll my eyes when I see another 'fantasy is so much easier to write' thread. But, reading this post had made the whole thread worth while.
     
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  12. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    I'd rather be able to fly across the planet in half a day (reality) than take a year to walk to Mordor (fantasy)....
     
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  13. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    ....you do realize that not all fantasy is identical, yes?
     
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  14. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Contributor

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    At the surface level:

    Fantasy = people do interesting stuff with magic
    Science fiction = people do interesting stuff in space
    Historical fiction = people do interesting stuff in the past
    Contemporary fiction = people do interesting stuff in the modern world

    Until we start adding modifiers (ie Fantasy Romance), an author can do all sorts of things with these genres. Fantasy doesn't have to be a rehash of the Lord of the Rings, nor does it have to be set in a secondary world. Contemporary Fantasy is a good example: think Harry Potter or The Dresden Files.


    Fantasy writers impose their own sets of rules on their worlds, but they're still working with the same tools as any other writer. Fiction is read by humans who live in our world. High Fantasy books draw influence from real human cultures and fictionalize them. It's impossible for us as writers to do anything else, because the only cultures that we have experienced are human ones, and our brains are only capable of combining experiences we have already had, not conceiving of anything that is entirely separate from our past experiences. Fiction is a reflection on the world we live in, even if it's not set in that world. And all fiction must include well defined rules, otherwise there is no tension. See: Sanderson's Laws of Magic. Breaking the rules to save the heroes can happen in Fantasy, but that's a deux ex machina. So is breaking the rules in non-fantasy, such as if the Governor pardons the condemned person in your example out of the blue, with no rationale previously set up for why the governor would make such a decision.
     
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  15. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Erotica = people do interesting stuff in other people.
     
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  16. hyacinthe

    hyacinthe Banned

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    I've written both contemporary mundane fiction and fantasy fiction.

    the mundane fiction is a lot simpler.
     
  17. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman Extradinor Contributor

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    Feels like it takes a year to watch Lord of the Rings, and I mean just the first one. three years to watch them all. Honestly, I would rather test a pair of lead boots in the middle of the ocean then watch or read the LoTR series...
     
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  18. Glen Barrington

    Glen Barrington Senior Member

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    Earotica! Well, it's a difficult subject and with a rather small following, and you gotta know someone who likes to get in. But TOTALLY worth it if you do fit in to the genre.
     
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  19. Megs33

    Megs33 Active Member

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    I've given a lot of thought to this. I'm really, really drawn to fantasy stories, and as I've learned to separate the wheat from the chaff I've also started to notice why these stories matter to me.

    By and large, a GOOD fantasy story allows you to take a predominant issue (I'm not good enough, strong enough, brave enough, capable enough, etc) and recognize it in a fantastic way. My favorite favorite stories are about real people suffering from real issues while dealing with problems blown up beyond the scope of rational life. Are there vampires? Awesome, game on. Dragons? Sweet, they'd better matter to the plot. How about wizards? Yes, but they have reasonable boundaries to their power that keep them from being a deus ex machina device. Boo yah!

    I have very little patience for crappy fantasy. If you're just trying to write a personal fantasy about a "hero/heroine-who-is-the-savior-and-becomes-all-powerful-with-very-little-reasoning", you can bet I'll give up on your book within the first 50 pages.

    I'm on the front end of the millenial generation, which means I have a little insight to recognize why fantasy is so eye-catching. Many younger people are feeling trapped and suffocated in a mediocre life they feel like they've been shoehorned in to, and fantasy fiction allows them to feel like they can take back control and wrangle their own destinies. Fantasy is the genre of a disillusioned, frightened, and largely disenfranchised generation. Can I start my own revolution? Hell, why not. Katniss did.

    I think we need to roll our eyes less at fantasy genres. I think there's something here for us to learn about society and what it needs. There's a reason why these books are selling like hotcakes.
     
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  20. Glen Barrington

    Glen Barrington Senior Member

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    Fantasy, eh? I love me a good swordfight and a quest, but I hate tiny humans with wings and/or pointy ears. I think mages and demons are just A-holes too. I HOPE fantasy is more than adolescent magicians, and Maze like caverns.
     
  21. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    What you're describing isn't really fantasy, but romance. *

    *Not going by predefined genres, but by what you'd find in a dictionary.
     
  22. badgerjelly

    badgerjelly Contributor Contributor

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    I couldn’t disagree more. Writing badly is easy, writing well takes effort. Plus everything everyone writes is a reflection of the world they live in and how society effects them.

    That said I do think the genre attracts younger would be writers because youth and exploration fit well into fantasy settings and tend to use strong and easily identifiable characters - meaning heroes jounrney and such.
     
  23. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    From online dictionaries

    Fantasy:
    • imagination, especially when extravagant and unrestrained.
    • a mental image, especially when unreal or fantastic; vision.
    Romance:
    • a quality or feeling of mystery, excitement, and remoteness from everyday life.
    • a prose narrative treating imaginary characters involved in events remote in time or place and usually heroic, adventurous, or mysterious.
    • something (such as an extravagant story or account) that lacks basis in fact.
    • an emotional attraction or aura belonging to an especially heroic era, adventure, or activity.

    Speculate:
    • form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence.

    By these definitions,

    The King of Elfland's Daughter, by Lord Dunsaney, which is unrestrained by almost any rules or logic, is fantasy. 1984 (Orwell) which predicts a dystopian future, is speculative (sci fi). Harry Potter, Star Wars, and anything else that primarily focuses on an individual's extravagant adventures and heroism, is romance.
     
  24. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman Extradinor Contributor

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    One of my books is a Fantasy-Romance....
     
  25. Surtsey

    Surtsey Banned

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    Looking up the obvious online and defining genres by information obtained from bullet points may lead to erroneous conclusions. Virtually all stories in which the characters are human and beyond the age of puberty contain an element of romance - it's what people do. I can think of a few action/adventure exceptions.
     
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