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  1. sallynortheast

    sallynortheast Member

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    Starting a Story With the Ending

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by sallynortheast, Mar 5, 2019.

    I've put about 90k words together (many re-writes and edits still required), in what is a life journey for my Protagonist and her flawed view of the world.

    I have in parallel, the journey's for two other key characters (though in much less detail), a detective and an antagonist, that slowly come together with the MC as the plot progresses. Will the detective catch the antagonist before he ensnares the MC? while the naive MC goes about thinking life is perfect.

    The story covers the MC's exploits and shows how through her flaws she ultimately sets herself up as an unwitting target for the antagonist.

    The problem I have is the MC's flaws start at school and develop through her early 20's. While they show what caused her flawed world view, they are not gripping. The latter part of the novel becomes gripping as the antagonist gets closer. I feel it lacks the hooks to keep the reader engaged. "Nice story but where is the suspense, this is supposed to be a crime and mystery novel?"

    What are people's thoughts on starting the story towards the end where, for example, MC is being drowned and her life is seen as a flashback - Would it engage the reader to then look for clues in her life, to explain how she got into the final predicament? Of course, the perceived final predicament may not be what it seems.
     
  2. XRD_author

    XRD_author Banned

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    While flashbacks are often discouraged, on the theory that too much time-jumping creates too much work for the reader, revealing backstory by other means can be very effective. You can use internal thoughts of the MC (especially as tantalizing hints) and later have characters who know the backstory (of which the MC is one, but might be an unreliable narrator) tell it when the occasion is appropriate, with appropriate reactions from the character being told.

    E.g.: a character goes ballistic in response to a mild attempt by "Arthur" to pick her up at a bar, then storms off.

    "Hey, Joe," Arthur said, "you're an old friend of that girl. Why'd she go off on me like that? What'd I do?"
    Joe sipped his beer. "I don't think I want to talk about."
    "Then I guess I'd better call the cops. That was assault!"
    Joe sighed. "Please don't. Listen, most people 'round here know this, but we don't talk about it, okay?"
    "Hey, I'm no gossip."
    Joe raised his glass and poured it down his throat. He wiped his lips. "You ever hear about Creepy Clarence, the child-molesting clown?"
    "Who hasn't? It was national news."
    "Well ... when they caught him, the kid they caught him with ..."
    Arthur's eyes went wide, and his jaw dropped. "it was ..."
    "Yeah." Joe stared at his empty glass. "So cut her some slack, Arthur. She's suffered enough."
     
  3. sallynortheast

    sallynortheast Member

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    Interesting thought, if it was a single life event it may work that way but she goes through a number of experiences that shape and re-enforce her future direction over a number of years. The backstory is really the whole book up until she is drowning.

    I'm missing the hook that is going to make a reader looking for a crime novel continue reading, my thought is it would be only one time-jump from the point of feeling she is drowning, then everything runs forward.

    It's interesting how our perception of 'clowns' has changed over the years - the stuff of nightmares. :)


     
  4. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    I had this same discussion with @John Calligan not too long ago. He could probably point you to a few books that have done that.
     
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  5. sallynortheast

    sallynortheast Member

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    Thank you, I will check out your posting and track him down
     
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  6. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    From the screen writing book “Anatomy of Story,” as well as I can remember it, John Truby has recommendations on how to make this stuff compelling. Of all the people who talk about flaws that I’ve read, he’s the most heavy handed.

    He says that the important flaw should be something the character has to overcome to carry out the primary action of the story, and that the flaw should relate to a single event or situation from their past they can point to.

    You show the flaw by having the character act in character. Major turning points should relate to the flaw.

    On the other hand, there is plenty of media I like with flawless characters, or media where the characters flaws don’t move the plot. Imagine an abusive, alcoholic detective who goes on an adventure and solves a crime without addressing or confronting his illness.

    So about your story, do your characters’ flaws make the story happen? Do they have to be addressed in order to take action? If not, do we really need to know much about where they came from? Can you hint at them with minimal exposition and show them in action?

    I only read about pop fiction and genre fiction. I’m sure there are books about the lives of people and all the things that happened to them, but I don’t know much about that.

    I think sometimes we over value flaws out of fear of writing a Mary Sue, without realizing that the whole point of saying flaws are important is that they make certain kinds of compelling genre fiction, but a lot of popular fiction has flawless heroes, or heroes who’s flaws are just window dressing.

    I guess the use of an opening like yours, which is common in movies, is to promise that there will be action coming after some character developments. “How did we get here.” If your story starts with a woman jumping off a waterfall to escape dogs, then goes into 200 pages of her daily life in her 20s, I think the promise might not match up. On the other hand, if the next scene is her pocketing Mob money, we might sit up and take notice, especially if how she does it shows her flaw.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  7. sallynortheast

    sallynortheast Member

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    Good points thankyou - I have a lot to think about

     
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  8. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    @EBohio knows about this stuff
     
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  9. EBohio

    EBohio Banned

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    "Vertigo"... a good Alfred Hitchcock movie with Jimmy Stewart as a cop that caused the death of another cop because of his fear of heights and is then forced to retire. But that's not the story. The antagonist takes advantage of his fear of heights and vertigo to set him up in a murder mystery and if he doesn't get over this vertigo problem he won't help the intended victim and there could be tragic consequences again.

    There's only one flashback in the whole movie and we don't need his whole life story to find out how he got vertigo it is just important to know he has it.

    @sallynortheast you have to know what your story is about in order to figure out where to start it. You start at the beginning of the MC having the worst day of their life. (In your drowning scenario, that would be the end of her worst day :D). Some movies do start this way but it isn't necessary.

    I can tell you now that unless this girl has a very interesting life I don't need to take a journey with her starting at age 12 or 20.

    You keep saying she has flaws. Just give her one big one that is pertinent to the story. I think you want to tell a crime story not a psychological portrait of a troubled woman. Don't try to do both.
     
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  10. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I was thinking of another classic suspense movie, "Mirage" with Gregory Peck and Diane Baker. An accountant with amnesia has flashbacks of someone familiar falling to his death from a high rise office, and he's certain he's responsible. The story is his journey to recover his memory and find the truth, as he is pursued by both thugs and the law.

    Another is "D.O.A" with Edmond O'Brien. A man discovered he has been incurable poisoned, and must discover who killed him before he succumbs. Most of this is also a journey into his past.
     
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  11. EBohio

    EBohio Banned

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    There's a ton. "Sunset Boulevard" does start with the MC floating dead in a pool and then he is the narrator as we go back and find out what happened.
     
  12. sallynortheast

    sallynortheast Member

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    You make a very good point thank you

     
  13. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Flashbacks are often discouraged? I never heard such a thing, and I've been writing and a long time.
     
  14. XRD_author

    XRD_author Banned

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    James Scott Bell, in Conflict and Suspense, says of flashbacks: "Don't do it. Unless there is a string and compelling reason to do so." That this was "common wisdom" may be an incorrect assumption on my part, and we all know writing rules were made to be broken (after you understand them, of course).

    I write a sequentially as possible, even interleaving disjoint arcs (though not at too fine a grain) at times. I think that's easier on the reader.
     
  15. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    I've seen this in writing books and on writing sites. I think the issues were that unless the writer is skilled the flashbacks could be misplaced, the transitions lousy or they might simply be useless - interrupting an otherwise better scene. I would never write the technique off though I find them intimidating to get right myself.
     
  16. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I don't think it's "common wisdom" or even good writing advice. Sure, learn how to use them and how they are effective, but I wouldn't avoid them all together because someone said not to use them. Flashbacks are sometimes the best way to get something across. And my favorite book Love in the Time of Cholera is basically one big flashback. I don't think what you are saying is any sort of rule that should or should not be broken. They're a part of writing. You don't have to use them, but many writers do and have for as far back as books probably go.
     
  17. XRD_author

    XRD_author Banned

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    I kind of cheat anyway: I have characters tell other characters stories about the past. It's perfectly natural in context: the MC was raised in an isolated environment and there's a lot she doesn't know about a lot of stuff. So people tell her stories sometimes to explain things. I try very hard to make them interesting stories in their own right, and the characters express the feelings they have about the stories as they tell them. Some are fun ("Savage Sam," about the day Clay met Samantha), some are epic ("Landing Day," the story of how the colony came to be, told as part of a traditional ceremony by a woman whose family had a major part in the story), some spectacular ("Volcano Goddess," about a sweet little old lady who, in her youth, tamed a supervolcano), some are just sweet ("Umbrellas," about a father and daughter enjoying being out in summer thunderstorm, and how that relationship changed as she grew up).

    My favorite novel, Norstrillia, does this. The story in it of how Wild William MacArthur brought the Temple of the Emporer of Night to Norstrillia is very memorable, and speaks volumes about Norstrillia and Norstrillians.
     

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