1. EstherMayRose

    EstherMayRose Gay Souffle Contributor

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    Darlings You've Got to Let Me Know, Should They Stay or Should they Go?

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by EstherMayRose, Mar 15, 2019.

    OK, so another question for the same story (or collection of stories).

    I'm writing a short story set in a fictional country called Cavallia, on the border between France and Italy, and this one's set during the Second World War (1939, to be precise). After the King dies in a motoring accident, his eighteen-year-old daughter is hastily crowned and then told to prepare for war. Cavallia is a tiny country, and the Nazis are fully expected to just plough right through on their way to Paris, stopping for a little breather just to take Cavallia's capital, Saint-Gosse. They don't have much military might, having often relied on France to defend them, but now France is preparing for its own battles, they're pretty much defenceless.

    And the most important issue is whether she and her government (they have a constitutional monarchy, with a prime minister) and family should leave Cavallia and flee to London like a lot of other monarchies, or if they should stay and lead Cavallia from their usual abode like Christian X of Denmark did. It doesn't seem very politically astute so early in her reign to up and flee the country, leaving her people to face the hardships imposed on occupied countries by the Nazis, but she does need to be kept safe so that she can return to Cavallia after the war and continue to lead, rather than putting herself in danger, and she has her four-year-old sister to think about. In later life, she is an incredibly respected and beloved queen, so staying to be a symbol of hope in troubling times could certainly cement that image for her.

    If anyone has any other pros and cons of either, or has an idea of which is best, please let me know.

    Thank you! :)

    Also, sorry for calling you all "darlings", but hopefully you're all sharing my earworm now. ;)
     
  2. XRD_author

    XRD_author Banned

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    Not sure why her four-year old sister matters in her decision: the sister can be sent somewhere safe.

    I think the answer depends not only on her character, but on those of the people around her.

    For example, imagine she stays but is not the kind of person who would compromise with the occupying forces.
    But then imagine that one of her parent's counselors is a crafty person who covertly manages to keep the conflict between her and the occupiers from resulting in disaster ... without the MC knowing it. Lots of tension and story opportunities there, especially between the MC and her counselor friend when the MC discovers what's been going on behind her back/throne.
     
  3. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    1939 between France and (Mussolinis) Italy...

    How on earth did the nazis go there in their way to Paris?

    Wehrmacht went to France 1940. They bypassed Maginot line through BeNeLux countries. That is one year later and in the north, not south like the border between Italy and France.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_France

    There were some German troops in that general area in about 1943. (Italy controlled Monaco 1942-43 and Germany 1943-44.)
     
  4. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Alan has nailed this one - if you want the Wehrmacht to plough through on its way to Paris you need to relocate Cavilla to be in the luxembourg, Belgium kind of area and it happened in 1940 not 1939

    fra86100.gif

    About the only time the Germans ploughed through the Italy/France border was in 1943 after the Armstice of Cassibile , although even then it was more of a troop movement than a rolling blitzkrieg. The Alpine terrain doesn't lend itself to armoured fist campaigns, which is the same reason the Allies opened up a northern front with D Day rather than relying on only attacking up through Italy
     
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  5. EstherMayRose

    EstherMayRose Gay Souffle Contributor

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    I'll give a better reply when I've got more time, but I should have been clearer. The story begins in 1939 and I haven't decided if it covers the whole war or just the first couple of years. Either way, what I should have made clearer is that they're expecting the Nazis to come through: they've seen a lot of the other small European countries fall to the Nazis and they know they'll go for France sooner or later. I do know the history on this one: I studied the Nazis and the Second World War at GCSE and A Level.

    Ambiguity aside, thanks for the responses. I didn't think that her sister could go while she stays, thanks for pointing that out. Perhaps their mother could take her.
     
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  6. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    but why are they expecting the Nazis to come through on their way to Paris when their country is not in any way on any sensible route from Germany to Paris ? Unless they are expecting the Germans to cross the Austrian alps then cross back over the French alps in order to drive north through France (which would be odd to say the least) there is no reasonable likelihood of the Germans crashing through on their way anywhere
     
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  7. XRD_author

    XRD_author Banned

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    It's a fictional country. There may be a fictional reason (in the MC's mind) for the Germans to stop by: some resource her country has, the fact that they are allied to countries Germany is invading, to prevent them from being a refuge or base of operation for resistance groups, because it would be a good base for German operations, becasue there's a lot of ethnicities living in the kingdom that they think the Germans are trying to eliminate from Europe, and so on.

    None of which have to be particularly true or completely rationale, as long as it's believable that the MC fears it.
     
  8. Laughing Rabbit

    Laughing Rabbit Active Member

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    I think she should stay. Personally I wouldn't trust a leader that would run off and abandon our country the moment a legitimate threat rears its head. If a leader did that then came back expecting everyone to follow them in rebuilding the country, I would have no loyalty to that leader and opponents to the crown would consider that a prime time for a coup.
     
  9. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    Well, London is calling, you know. However, I would have a lot more respect for your young queen if she stayed in Cavallia. I don't see how the sister changes things; she could be sent off to London if things get dangerous.
     
  10. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    From fascist Mussolini's Italy to Vichy France? Or from Vichy France to Mussolini's Italy?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_France

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Italy_(1922–1943)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Social_Republic

    You could use the history of Monaco as some kind of reference, but then it's Italy that storms the little country and nazis might take control after that.

    Or you could make it an semi independent island state near the border. Then you can choose who might storm it or not.
     
  11. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    I agree with others that say she should stay for her people. But if she had to be out of the country for plot reasons, there is the option of having her out of the country, like for diplomatic reasons in England, before the Nazis take France and then have her unable to safely return because of U-Boats and AA guns and all that. It could even be a point of conflict and action for her trying to get back to her home and her people.
     
  12. Stormsong07

    Stormsong07 Contributor Contributor

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    If she goes, she would need a very compelling reason in order for her country to understand and accept her back.
    -A desperate, harrowing trip to London to seek and bring back aid for her country
    -Fleeing to London in an attempt to perhaps draw the Nazi's attention away from her country and on to her
    or something else. I just don't see fleeing for her own personal safety proper justification for abandoning her country at the first sign of war. Unless, that is, this particular monarchical family is especially beloved by the people and they would want her to flee for her own safety in order to return later and rule.
     
  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Leaders fleeing to set up a government of free Cavilla in London (or elsewhere) would have been pretty much situation normal - vis the free French, free poles, free Czechs etc - Royalty who stayed would have a high risk of getting liquidated unless they became puppet collaborators because the Nazis would see them as a security risk for the resistance to mobilise around.
     
  14. XRD_author

    XRD_author Banned

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    Which is a great reason for them to stay, in fiction. :)
     
  15. EstherMayRose

    EstherMayRose Gay Souffle Contributor

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    I was thinking about this. Most leaders did flee. If not, they'd likely have been taken prisoner. In fact, one of the Luxembourgish ministers did become a captive. In addition, governments-in-exile could get things done (such as the Belgian GiE taking care of Belgian refugees and setting up military training camps, and multiple governments making preparations for after the war, working with resistance movements, and producing propaganda to keep people's sprits up) whereas the Germans would just have exploited the country's resources without any plans made to minimise damage (martial law was imposed in Denmark after the government and the Germans fell out). So if they fled it wouldn't just be an act of cowardice. An additional concern which I noticed going through the family tree I made was that she married (she got engaged before the war) and had two sons during the war. She would probably want to go with them somewhere safe.

    However, there are a lot of Cavallian people in this story, and I wanted to show what's going on in Cavallia (it's written like a diary, like others in the series), so having them stay might be necessary. Having news from home come through through letters and broadcasts wouldn't be as immediate or tense.

    So I'm still on the fence.

    Here's a bit of quick research I did on the number one most reliable website:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_in_exile#World_War_II

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark_in_World_War_II
     
  16. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    I quite like the idea of her despair, her fears as a monarch 1000 miles away from any combat, her speeches and absorption in the self.

    or...

    ... reconfiguring toward 1939?

    Geographically I see Cavallia as a snowy, Lion Witch and the Wardrobe country-state under the benevolent eye of the Soviet Union leadership, and the Soviet peoples, their friendly local neighbours. Only the ghastly Finns have plans for conquest and fornication with princesses who are out of their league in every sense. [Not even members of the League of Nations , check that] The Red Army must rush tank units to destroy menacing Finnish snipers like black & white ants and wearing German helmets [that is true also.]
     
  17. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    Finnish soldiers rushed through the snow with their intentions to assault the princesses obvious from their faces and in their eyes. The Finns would surely climb the castle walls, and kidnap the baby princess and sauna her to death.

    'But lo!' said the other appropriate princess, her beautiful finger highlighting the rumble in the sky as .Russian tanks fell to this earth on their parachutes, their guns blasting and blazing away the Finnish barbarian onslaught.

    'Hurrah for Russia,' cried all the princesses of Cavallia.
     
  18. XRD_author

    XRD_author Banned

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    Hardly.

    Cavallia was defended by a scruffy plucky band of battle-hardened soldiers from all over the world, all descended from Cavallian emmigrants, who have returned to the country of their forebearers to defend it int he trying times before WW2.
    Sort of like the Flying Tigers in Asia.

    They all love the Princesses, some platonically, some romantically, ans the ones that love the younger one in "that way", well, that's just plain creepy, and heads will roll.
     
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  19. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    Lovely :)
     
  20. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Aww, yeah they will! Bow chicka wow wow!

    ...No wait, that's something else. Hooray for Cavallia! Hooray for the Princess! Long live the Queen! (may she rest in peace)
     
  21. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    All of matwoolf's posts give me a wtf moment, and I mean that in every good way.
     
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  22. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    Also did no one catch my epic pun in my first post?
    [​IMG]
     
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  23. EstherMayRose

    EstherMayRose Gay Souffle Contributor

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    This has taken a strange turn.

    I love it.

    (Also the old Queen consort, now the Queen Mother, is fine (physically). She wasn't in the car with her husband and lived on until 1982.)

    EDIT: I did catch your pun, but I didn't have anything to say about it. What is it with this thread and The Clash?
     
  24. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    I don't know. You titled it.
     
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  25. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    Well..for 'writing' - the notion of the monarch 'sticking with her people' as in George VI/Queen Mother aside her 'plucky cockneys' in the Blitz is not so rigorous, I suppose...is the word, or open to subversion.

    There'd be lots of fun writing 'I shall remain among thee...!' in the haughtiest speech-making context - countered with a dose of the 'Get that grubby man away from my napkins, which way is Canada?'
     

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