1. almostvoid

    almostvoid Member

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    The dirty underbelly of self publishing.

    Discussion in 'Self-Publishing' started by almostvoid, Apr 9, 2019.

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  2. Tea@3

    Tea@3 Senior Member

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    Interesting read.

    Everything seems so messed up now. <sigh>
     
  3. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    Roberts is a baller.
     
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  4. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Oh yeah, I saw that article a few days ago. Well, I suppose it's inevitable that jerky people are going to push the envelope with just about anything. It really is disheartening, though.
     
  5. NigeTheHat

    NigeTheHat Contributor Contributor

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    Not really surprising, IMO. If there's a system, people are going to try and game it. Doesn't mean you should be discouraged from trying to self-pub your own stuff.
     
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  6. almostvoid

    almostvoid Member

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    Tea@3---timely reminder -- I've been given the runaround for quite a few times by self publishing contractors. I remember seeing a solicitor about something else and mentioned how I had lost $600 to an American Agent who haha-surprise did SFA. He told me he had had clients spend up to $10,000 chasing agents! Once burnt is a valuable lesson. I blamed myself. However a little diligence goes a long way. Pithy I know. The trick for [us] authors is finding the audience!
     
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  7. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    There's that old adage to keep in mind: If it sounds too good to be true—it probably is.

    Publishing and selling a book in any form is hard work—traditional, self, whatever. I'd be leery of anybody who tells you it's not.
     
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  8. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    TBH the impact of itt all on legit self publishers is pretty small - apart from it being harder to get/keep reviews on amazon, and if you are KU having to be more careful about what goes in your back matter so you don't get accused of stuffing
     
  9. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

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    So, the article is saying that Amazon's self publishing platform breeds system cheaters. They fixed the book stuffing issue, so that's no longer an issue. As far as plagiarism, that sucks. Amazon could force your book through a program that looks for that easy enough in the publishing process. If there was a big uproar about plagiarism I'm sure they either did or plan to fix the issue. Although, I'm sure the proper motivation is required for the company (like it causing them to lose money in one way or another).

    I agree with the other poster that this isn't discouraging, unless you are an idealist of human character. It's just a small aspect of the game. There's always cheats. I've run across companies shopping for ghostwriters. I'm talking businesses/people willing to pay practically nothing, but they still insist no plagiarism and tell you they will run you through a program to check. Plagiarism can ruin their business....but they'll laugh all day to the bank with a pile of poorly written binge reads. Really, the only thing they insist to get you in the door is thorough understanding of the English language.
     
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  10. SolZephyr

    SolZephyr Member Supporter

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    Absolutely disgusting. A novel a month? The quality must be awful.
     
  11. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Any time theres a system people will try and game it - vis record labels trying to buy their way into the top 40
     
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  12. Partridge

    Partridge Senior Member

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    Doom!
    Gloom!

    It's in every industry and every walk of life. You think this is bad? Try editing an online magazine, and try weeding out the wrong 'uns who copy and paste Wikipedia.

    Just keep your head down and focus on producing good quality work. These scammers? They will be caught out, eventually. We're here for the long haul.

    Personally, this article isn't worrying me one bit and it certainly didn't suprise me. It's also quite rare to see a Guardian article that isn't about equal rights or lentils for something.
     
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  13. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

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    I've read a ton of self published romance and the ones that pump one out a month generally do have low quality work. Although, I've also read traditionally published romance and depending on the author the quality is negligible.

    Then again I'm sometimes flabbergasted at the best selling authors on Amazon's charts. I'm talking the ones who have fully taken the quantity over quality to heart and I can't even read it. I think some of those are not really a person, but a company with a cheap team of ghostwriters paid to write faster.
     
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  14. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    I remember saying that the algorithm was geared towards
    quantity over quality, so I am not surprised that there have
    been people scamming it by any means to make a quick buck.
    Though it is a new low that now there are 'copy paste authors'
    blatantly ripping off legitimate authors.

    I can't imagine why I continually look for older works that
    pre-date the digital age to read. Cause they don't write a book
    every 5 minutes that is complete and total garbage.

    Hope they nail the pricks ripping off others hard work. :)
     
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  15. Tea@3

    Tea@3 Senior Member

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    Just re-read all the replies in this thread. Interesting topic, and one close to all of us. As I was re-reading the thread, this question came to mind:

    Are readers (in the role as buyer) directing the corporation's actions? (good ole supply & demand)

    ...or is the corporation directing the readers' actions?
    (actions = choices @ P.O.S.)

    (some of us may want to substitute 'Amazon' for 'corporation')
     
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  16. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    I would say it is the corporation directing the readers.

    It uses the youtube method of: the faster and more content you produce
    the higher up on the list you will be, quality not required, just mass of
    volume.
     
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  17. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

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    It's what people want in my opinion. Our mind is geared towards seeking out more stimulus. The majority of people gravitate towards rapid retrievel, compared to deep understanding. As we continue to frequently use the internet our brains readjust (plasticity). We begin to work more like a search bar, swiftly seeking out a large amount of things instead of concentrating a long period of time on one thing.

    Quality comes into play because there is a threshold to what can suspend our entertainment.

    This rapid style of self publishing is an natural gravitation as the human mind collectively readjusts to prolific internet use.
     
  18. NobodySpecial

    NobodySpecial Contributor Contributor

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    The worst nightmare story I’ve heard about publishing on amazon’s KDP was on another forum, where a woman claimed a book of hers was doing well in the rankings, but the listing was in someone elses name. It was her book, she was named as author, just someone else was selling it. I don’t know what ever came of the situation or how common it is to be pirated like that.
     
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  19. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    The programming would be easy enough. But not all books are available in e-version, and not all of those are controlled by Amazon. So I think the most Amazon could do would be to check for plagiarism of their authors by their authors.

    And once they started that, people would either find ways to thwart the text-comparison algorithms, or start OCRing older books, or both.
     
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  20. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    most of the time whats happening there is the author has extended distibution ticked and the other seller is drop shipping - ie selling at a profit, then ordering it and selling on... its annoying but legit
     
  21. Tea@3

    Tea@3 Senior Member

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    Maybe I'll return to screenwriting. <sigh>
     
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  22. almostvoid

    almostvoid Member

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    scarry isn't it? I try and avoid authors who have written too many because I fear they are using a formula and simply change the adjectives around
     
  23. almostvoid

    almostvoid Member

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    this
    t
    this may explain why so many books are so flat. I am reading one from a booker prize nominee and it is so vapid---like this: the ghost appeared and the villagers were scared and ran away--- and that was it. How scary is that? not very. so simple. so simplified. and this is booker material nominated. the editors of course self justify mangling the original mss as well. no wonder so many [of us] are self publishing.
    luckily for brain plasticity--no long term damage as the brain resets itself sleeping---but I agree with ya too much of this-haha internet makes be bored. I only go online for no more than three days a week now- unfortunately this site here - your ahem august presence- all of you your many alter creative others are off in all good directions---the internet is good if you know what you are looking for---as for time I read books-what a surprise---TV is gone---yipee--and music---my addiction is no affliction
     
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  24. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I also don't watch TV any more. In fact, last time I tried, I realised I'd forgotten how to use the remote! I probably spend far too much time online, but I still read books ALL the time. I know what you mean about 'flat.' So many new books of fiction that I've read recently (including prizewinners) do seem 'flat.' A good way to describe them, actually. Can't put my finger on why. They're not bad, they're just not something I would want to re-read. They leave no lasting impression on me.
     
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  25. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Yikes.
     

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