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  1. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    Using Slurs In Your Writing?

    Discussion in 'General Writing' started by J.T. Woody, Jul 14, 2019.

    One of the stories I want to submit, has 2 instances of homophobic slurs in them. The context in the first instance is, the character's emotionally absent father calls him this as another reason why he is ashamed of him.
    The second instant is this same character laughs off jokes about his sexual orientation by saying the same word his father used about him.

    I don't like the word, and I cringe every time I read it editing my story, but I think it is important to his actions and his mental state of being bullied by his father and bullied by his classmates (His sexual orientation is never mentioned, but assumed by his father and bullies).
    Using that word in no way reflects who I am as a person... but I'm worried that the inclusion of it (even if it is twice) will have readers view me negatively and hurt the chances of it ever being published. For example, one journal submission guidelines reads: "We will not accept aphorisms, fan fiction, erotica, or any racial/religious/gender/nationality slurs unless you identify with such."
    I identify with bullies having nothing better to say and resorting to calling me a dike because I wore my brother's clothes (and thats pretty much the context of the character... he's a bit different and his father calls him the F word for it)

    If I nix the slur... I don't know that the character's actions going forward would make sense...
     
  2. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Contributor

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    I'm of the Stephen King school of thought. Tell the truth, even when it isn't comfortable. We may not like it, but such slurs are real, and people in these identity groups have to deal with them all the time. If we water down reality, then we misrepresent the struggles that people actually face. By making the actions of our characters unrealistic, we do an injustice to both our characters and our readers.

    If you don't want to put the word down on paper, you can cut out the direct quote. Just mention in narration that the father said that word, and describe the weight it has when thrown down on the table. Kind of like how they handle Ralph saying the F word in A Christmas Story. But I wouldn't cut out the word's usage from the plot, as that's watering down reality. And my preference would be to write down the full dialog, including the word, as it is actually said by the characters. I fortunately haven't had to use that particular word in my writing, and I don't sail into those waters idly (I write science fiction, so have more freedom in using fictional identity groups), but if I do write on that topic I'm going to do my best to give it justice.

    My recommendation: find some beta readers who have a good knowledge of the relevant communities and run things by them.

    For publishers... I dunno. Getting published is hard. If they really want your story, they could probably just ask for edits right? And at that point you could weigh the decision with all of the information you actually need. I'd only self-censor for the big bucks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
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  3. ElConesaToLoco

    ElConesaToLoco Active Member

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    We're reaching pathetic levels of sensibility. If you are not allowed by a publisher to have a character insult another character with a slur, even in the context of parental verbal abuse, then that publisher isn't worth working with and deserves to go bankrupt. God forbid a writer represents family drama in a realistic way, wouldn't want readers to know people sometimes use hurtful words. Oh, the humanity! Someone get me my blinders!
     
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  4. LazyBear

    LazyBear Banned

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    Using a bad word a bit can show people that it's disrespectful if spoken by a generally awful character, like the racist corrupted policeman in the television show Weeds. Using it too much like in rap songs can however make people say it accidentally to a friend without thinking because of how people learn language. The brain just picks a word from what's commonly used before they reflect on it how it could be taken in the wrong way.
     
  5. Cirno

    Cirno New Member

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    Speaking personally, as a pansexual man, I'd much rather you be honest about the sort of things we tend to go through rather than trying to put a layer of sugar over it. Of course you should be careful, and don't use the social commentary angle to make it an intolerable raunchfest like like some do--but if it's what the character is going to say, and you need it in there to get the themes you're writing about across, by all means do it.

    Though I think that the word "political correctness" has lost a lot of its meaning in this day and age, I think any attempt to be progressive by making an idyllic version of our world is...pretty damn misguided.
     
  6. Ben Hill

    Ben Hill New Member

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    Great thread, should be a sticky!
    Ben.
     
  7. Ben Hill

    Ben Hill New Member

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    Just read 'Using Slurs In Your Writing?' Great thread. Made me think about the way I hold back from using the non 'PC' words, not any more though. Mind you, would I be close to starting World War Three if I were to wtite that...'Listning to the Osmonds brought on a feeling of depression!'

    All the best
    Ben.
     
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  8. SethLoki

    SethLoki Retired Autodidact Contributor

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    In defence of the flare wearers, I say there's actually a shiny nugget of a gold tooth amidst those blinding veneers that make the Osmond's back catalogue...

    ...Crazy Horses ( I can't fail to like that one ).
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
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  9. Tomb1302

    Tomb1302 Senior Member

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    Not sure what exactly you're asking, but, I wholeheartedly agree that things should be said 'as is'. When writing and intending to use a slur, it is -often- for a given purpose; To accomplish something by using said slur. Avoiding to use this slur in the attempt to keep a piece 'soft' or 'appropriate' is the biggest mistake, because, it falls right into the 'Political Correctness' bullshit we see today.

    It's like WWII without the Nazi regime (Looking at you Battlefield 5) for the purpose of keeping the game appropriate to all. It completely ruins any immersion, and, is just a 'white lie' in the grand spectrum of both the history, and the presentation.

    Why would we hide it if it really happened? Why hide what was?
     
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  10. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    Had good advice from my editor several years ago. Reserve slurs for the dialogue, where they reflect the character's views, but not in narration where they become the author's view. Thus, my characters would use "whore" and "cocksucker" in their speech or thoughts, as well as various colorful pieces of profanity, but in narration I would use "prostitute" or other milder terms, and never profanity
     
  11. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I would argue that the author and narrator can be two separate entities, so using slurs, etc. in the narration might not be an issue.
     
  12. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    The narrator is the author. If the narrator is someone other than the author it is a character speaking.
     
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  13. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    The narrator and the author can certainly be separate. It doesn't always have to be a character "speaking," like you might get in a first person novel. There are other novels written in third person where it is clear the narrator is separate and apart from the author of the book (and in such cases the narrator may be unreliable).
     
  14. Hublocker

    Hublocker Active Member

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    In my current WIP I use the word Squaw-humper.

    It is used by a contemporary First Nations woman to refer to a slur that people used to use here in the 1960s for a white guy who went out with Indian women.

    It was derogatory to everyone it referred to, but it was really used and if I am to write a realistic novel about the period I felt compelled to use the phrase.

    Am I wrong to use it?

    Must I whitewash it to accommodate sensitive contemporary editors and readers in the end?
     
  15. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    That's the best they could come up with? Sounds pretty PG-13.
     
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  16. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Gee I must not be very good at this kinda thing.
    I've used bitch, bastard, fuck wit, freak, jackass,
    and psycho.
    Suppose I just don't see the need to attack someones species
    or their orientation. Never really occurred to me to hurl hurtful
    words since bullets, blades, and bombs cause a bit more damage
    without making it feel overly personal. :p
    Unless you count calling a reptilian 'leather head' a slur of sorts,
    pretty much everything else boils down to basic manner of insults.

    Though I typically keep the slurring to when someone is extremely
    drunk, and not as a means of attacking someone verbally. It never
    really crossed my mind, and I have all sorts of characters that are
    on my limited logical spectrum of sexual diversity/orientation, and
    it really doesn't affect the way anyone in story thinks about them cause
    it doesn't matter. So I guess you could say in the far future the military
    really doesn't care what you're into as long as you do your job. :)

    (Unless someone has a problem with human/alien relationships of any nature?) :p
     
  17. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Contributor

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    Ultimately, language is communication. Words carry meaning and the written word records that meaning into a book, script, post, speech, routine, or document. If we restrict ourselves from using words, we limit the meaning that we want to convey. George Orwell's 1984 shows us this with the newspeak language and efforts by the Oceanian government to limit what people can say through language.

    There's another side to that coin though. When we use words, we have to be careful that we convey the meaning that we intend to. Effective communication requires respect for other people. We should be aware of the context we write in. When writing stories, we represent fictional events in order to emulate the real world. When we write nonfiction, we speak as ourselves to our audience directly. We shouldn't abandon civility outside the context of fiction even if we seek to tell the truth, because it is key to be civil when communicating effectively.

    The line here can be hard to identify. Comedy is one area that draws contraversy, because comedians often present material as their own words, but it is really a form of spoken art that is not meant as literal opinion. When does opinion become art? I don't think our society has answered that question yet.
     
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  18. flawed personality

    flawed personality Contributor Contributor

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    Personally, I dislike people throwing around the word psycho. Psychopathy is a specific and serious personality disorder. To claim that anyone who does something potentially hurtful and/or dangerous/risky is a psycho isn't understanding the full complexity of humans being humans.
     
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  19. jackmajor

    jackmajor New Member

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    I think that it all depends on how you use it If you use it to demonstrate character flaws great that's actually good writing if you use it without any Rhyme or Reason then that just being bigoted for no adequate reason and pretty stupid
     
  20. animagus_kitty

    animagus_kitty Senior Member

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    I generally don't use anything stronger than 'damn' or 'godsdamned' (it's fantasy, ok?) specifically. When I need something stronger, i usually just say that the character 'cursed loudly' or 'cursed violently', and then describe the reaction to it, like someone else's ears turning red or being embarrassed to hear such things from someone so important. I feel like if I made up curse words, it would just sound phony, but if I just say 'they cursed', then it allows the reader to use whatever phraseology works for them without actually increasing the potential 'rating' of my book.

    If it was set in the real world, or a world recognizable as being our future, I'd probably use 'fuck' too, but I feel like it would strain readers' suspension of disbelief if I used it when there are perfectly acceptable alternatives.
     
  21. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I don't really see any slurs in your example or how it would start WWIII. I'm not formula with the book you referenced, but I think there is a big difference between using racial slurs and curse words. I don't really worry about being PC, but I also don't think it's an issue with my writing. I do use curse words sometimes and I've done that both in the dialog and narration. I think writers can get away with a lot, but at the same time you don't want to be attacking a certain group of people through your story or the words you choose. I think it's more than okay to say it how it is, but that doesn't mean you need to disrespect certain people with slurs to accomplish that.
     
  22. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    In all my years of reading I've never come across an unreliable narrator in third person. A third person narrator is not a character and has no stake in the story therefore no reason to lie or for a reader not to trust what they are saying. If the sky is purple, according to a third person narrator, then it's purple in the story. Characters can lie, but a third person narrator lying would be a complete mess of a story, in my opinion. If anyone's got an example of an unreliable narrator in third person, I would love to hear it because based on my reading experience and what I know about writing I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as an unreliable narrator in third person.
     
  23. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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  24. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I'm still not really sure from the example that the narrator is the one who is unreliable rather than the character being unreliable. And the author of this little blurb admits to basically thinking all narrators are unreliable somewhat which simply isn't true. An unreliable narrator is a very specific thing. It's not all narrators. And although I haven't read this book, I have a really hard time believing that there is actually a third person unreliable narrator. It's just something that doesn't really make sense. Sorry, but I feel like this is something I know about pretty well. And I really don't think I'm wrong on this.
     
  25. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    end of the day third close is just first with names instead of i, me etc so if you can have an unreliable first you can have an unreliable close third. I'd agree that I can't really see third omni being unreliable.

    Emma by jane austen is a classic example of a close third character who's opinion of themselves as expressed by the narrator is significantly different to how the whole picture shows them - miss marjori Millbanks by Margret Oliphant is another - in the latter the narrator consistently praises miss millbanks organisational skills and social brilliance where as the picture the reader develops is much less favourable

    Rip van winkle is another classic case - the way in which the narrator filters him as a kindly man who means well is not consistent with how he character actually appears to the reader.

    If I wrote for example

    " Tom seethed, the useless bitch had burnt his toast again, she couldn't do anything right, he'd be justified in whipping her ass but he was a kindly man so he only hit her twice"

    what i'm telling you as a narrator - that hes a kind man who's entirely justified in beating his partner - doesn't gibe with the impression you get of a narcissistic bully
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019

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