That's actually pretty inspired thinking, really. I don't think you have to be OCD in order to benefit from that approach!
Actually, that is one hell of a good piece of writing. Drawn to this thread like a cow to a UFO? That's an image that will stick with me for a while.
Jannert... I did not make my point clear. Sorry about that. "This text is good" is totally different thing than "you are a good writer". If I tell that some text is good, I evaluate text, not person. I don't tell anything about any other text. If I tell someone that he/she is a good writer, I evaluate person. I define him or her. I think it's very risky to evaluate persons and good to evaluate deeds. If I evaluate you, I take away some of the room you have for your own growth. If I evaluate your writing, I don't evaluate your person. (It might feel like it, but it does not happen.) I think that difference is very important.
At some point in his life, Ernest Hemingway did not think he was a very good writer. As I said, belief in yourself is the sine qua non for success. Not that you believe you are good now, that is vanity, and vanity precludes getting better. But good enough to begin, and able to get better through effort, that is essential. Alan Aspie, if someone said "Frankly, Alan, you are not a very good writer," would that motivate you to write more?
I think it's a mistake to rely on other people to motivate you. And that goes for anything. Motivation, and determination, comes from within.
Can use all the fancy labels and framing devices we want, but it usually boils down to two things. Laziness and fear. Nobody likes being called lazy so we shy away from it or package it with impressive sounding alternative terms. In the end though, its simply laziness. If you want to be a writer...write. Fear. "What if.....I write a book and its shit?! My dream is over!.....I won't risk that happening, I'll just keep dreaming instead". If you want to be a writer...write. No-one (as far as I'm aware) has written the perfect book yet. It's impossible, there will always be areas to change or improve. So for people with OCD, which seems to be half the world now, that's a big problem. Stop reading this thread and get writing!
Yeah, that difference is important. The problem can come when people THINK that when they are told their text is 'not good' that means THEY are no good. That's where harsh critique can have a very detrimental effect on a writer. Tact is required. If that sort of person gets told that their writing is crap, they can tuck their tail between their legs and slink away, never to return. Such a shame. That boils down to a lack of self-esteem rather than the ability to write (and improve.) Of course there is the other side of the coin. If a person's writing gets praised—even by one critic, in the teeth of others who are not quite so enthusiastic—they can go away thinking they are the best thing since sliced bread, that unenthusiastic critics are all stupid, and that they don't need to improve their writing because they are already perfect. Again, tact is required... I believe in the happy medium. Accept that not everybody will like what you write (which is no reflection on character or intelligence or ability—theirs or yours.) Then accept that your writing probably isn't perfect either, so if somebody finds a flaw, consider what they've said in the spirit of 'can this be improved?'
off topic I don't know. I would ask why he or she thinks that way. And I would listen to the words, not nonverbal messages or my own thoughts and feelings. There are things that are different between me and most of the forumites. 1. I'm a Finn. Our culture is very, very direct compared to for instance American culture. We are used to honesty that looks very rude in American - or even Swedish - view. 2. I'm autistic. Big part of us are honest to the pathological level. I seek all the time my own strong and weak areas. I know self reflection is hard for me. Autism makes some parts of it even harder. Every time I can get some honest feedback which does not have pecking order sub agendas, I use to focus in it very deeply. I have extreme difficulties to understand in emotional level why this "oh, you are so good" -thing seems to be so important to some folks. I can understand part of it in cognitive level. It does not help, because there is a deep contradiction between deeds and needs. In English I'm lousy writer. I know it and I want to make myself much, much better. If someone says me, that I write good English, I get a bit annoyed. To me it does not mean that someone is polite. It means that someone does not appreciate me enough to be honest and straight to me. And without honesty there can't be anything else that matters. Everything else is built to honesty. Without honesty everything crumbles. And I don't want to be a part of that kind of crumbling world. In Finnish I'm getting better quite fast. I still have huge gaps. It will take time to close them. Some of them will never close. Part off my fast progress is working my weaknesses. I really, really appreciate anyone showing them in a useful way. Showing them in a way that does not help me to get a grip on them is just annoying. It frustrates me. "Here is this thing you could work more, but I don't give you details you would need." That is really, really annoying. (Added this chapter later. ) To me all that "I say this because I want you to feel or do that" is 99% manipulative behaviour and one percent something else. And I think it is very important and useful to get protective distance to manipulation. Sometimes it's not wise to show that I'm making distance. If something is 99% manipulation and 1% good will it's still 99% manipulation. But... I use that "you are only as good as your last race" tool to myself. I self reflect myself via my working and it's results. It is not possible that I'm not as good as my results. And if I have done my best, my results should be in my level. And if I have not done my best, then "not being able to do my best" is my level and it's not very good level. Compared to that result based self reflection different opinions are... They are mixtures of personal agendas of other people + useful data + background noice. Sometimes it's all agendas, sometimes all data, sometimes all noice. I try to figure out the amounts and qualities of those three. I hope this gives something useful to you - or anybody else. And let's get out of me and back to the topic.
"Go where the pain is, go where the relief is" tool is very useful in those situations. There is good material + areas that need working in both directions. And very often those two - area of pain + area of relief - are partially the same areas but in different time.
This is not aimed at the OP or an accusation: That's why I made the distinction between wanting to be a writer and wanting to write. For some people that's just semantics. They say writer when they mean they want to write. For others though, they genuinely prefer the first over the second. They want to be admired and respected, as writers tend to be. There's a sense of intellectual superiority to some people who think of themselves as a writer, probably because of the romanticised ideals of the Beat generation, or daydreams of being the centre of attention at parties. Kind of like why some people climb Everest (it's hardly worthy of bragging rights anymore- tell me you climbed Everest and I'll reply you wasted your money.). Some people want the title: writer. It's just the pesky writing bit that gets in the way. Other people just like to write, and don't give a flying fig what they're called.
And that tends to be 90% of the posts from prospective writers. They can't motivate themselves. They expect writing to be easy and it isn't. This is the difference between wanting to be a writer and wanting to write. Wanting to be a writer, like wanting to be an astronaut, means nothing unless you're willing to put in the years of hard work to achieve it. Most people aren't. It's why they fail.
Seems it may be awhile until the OP replies but id just like to say, I understand it can be difficult getting your point across when it comes to mental illness. I've been diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic now for a few years and it's a difficult thing for people to wrap their mind around. Though the advice here is great advice it seems like they are overlooking or downplaying your illness. I've had some OCD tendencies that presented themself in the black hole that is psychosis and I cannot stress this enough. No matter how strong the impulse or pull into such thinking is ( constant revision, inability to be consistent, never satisfied) it is not based in reality. You must come to terms with this fact to achieve your dream. A lot of the problems you've mentioned every writer experiences to some degree but I understand that they are magnified x100 fold with mental illness. Understand that you must write because you enjoy it. Do not consider the thoughts and opinions of others on what you are writing any more then you have to. Of course it's important to put reader first, and to write something worth reading, but you are the creator of your book and thus the first reader. Nothing in this world is perfect and nothing will ever be. You cannot reasonably expect yourself to create the perfect book as that is not possible. Have an idea in mind of what you want to say, and let it create itself naturally. Take the unreasonable expectations of your shoulders dear, I beg of you. Write because you love to and love what you write because you wrote it. I'd like to help more, and possibly present you with something that has helped me beyond comprehension. If your interested do feel free to private message me. I wish you the absolute best. Godbless you.
I recently read words that went something like this: don't compare your beginnings to someone else's endings. So if you're comparing your initial steps to someone's repeated success, stop. Level your playing field. I've been writing off and on for decades. Sometimes I love it but usually I stop. Why? Because those times when I do it fills a void. Maybe I need a more mental challenge. Maybe my day job is so b o r i n g that I need to feel smart. Maybe it's a test. I really don't know why. I alternate between hobbies because my moods/emotions/life changes and so do I. Sometimes things don't serve us so well anymore and you need to make a change, whether it's a dwelling, friends, jobs, clothes, lover. It happens. If everyone you know is writing and you really don't enjoy it or want to do it then do something else. Be good to yourself. Also, lighten up on yourself. Don't rush to the finish line if you have no real way to get there. Don't spin the wheel and when it lands on "writer" think that comes with an abundance of magic dust. If I buy a pretty little plant and I take it home and water it and repot it when it gets root-bound and it thrives and I take a chance and buy a second and third and they thrive too, doesn't mean I'm going to open a garden center, it just means I like plants. At some point one may not live, but of the 15 that do, that's something. At some point I'll stop and do something else. Maybe you should distract yourself by trying something else. New things can be exciting. Any hobby takes devotion and a vested interest in the thing you are currently working on and it's outcome. The beginning - "I think I'll write a book!" and the optimum ending - "holy hell, I'm published!" - are so easy to think about and want. The problem comes in the process. It's the process that holds you up. It's like anything, I like to eat but not fond of cooking but I like/need to eat so I cook. It's not so bad. I like things painted but don't like to paint. Well, if I really want the thing I have to decide whether or not I want to do the work. If I don't, I have to hire someone else to do it, opt to do it myself, or let it go. Life offers an abundance of options. Choose more than one.
There's also the option of taking writing classes. I recommend Gotham for online classes. I took one of them and it truly elevated my writing in a few weeks.I'm talking a big difference. They have pretty in depth classes and the instructors I've come into contact with were so amazing and helpful. In my class we had weekly writing assignments plus two longer assignments. The instructor gave really good feedback on all our weekly assignments. The longer assignments everyone could comment on, and, again, the instructor was so awesome with direction and how to administer improvements. They are not the cheapest online courses, but I do believe they are among the best. I don't think would have become half the writer I am without the Gotham class I took. I would take more, but the cost is a big thing preventing me. So, I understand it's a lot of money, but if you really want to be a writer, these things can help. They offer a lot of different courses and were very helpful on the phone when I called to find out more on which class I should take. I ended up taking a beginner class even though I didn't really consider myself a beginner. Who the instructor is can matter, and at the time I was very impressed by the instructor of the beginning creative writing course so I went with that one. In addition to the assignments and the feedback, there was a week live chat with the instructor. Each week focused on a different aspect of writing and every single one of them was helpful. I mention this because it's a way to improve with a little help. And that could end up making a big difference. I justified the cost by knowing I was investing in myself and my dreams. They also have in person classes as well if you live in NYC, but I honestly really liked the way the online class was done. I would like to take another one in the future even though now I am a published writer and have achieved goals I never thought possible. There is another place that is supposed to be good called Grub Street. I have a friend who took their novel course where you had to do three drafts of your novel along with the whole read and get feedback thing. My friend really found it helpful. She now has an agent who is actively trying to sell her novel. I'm not sure which courses they offer online, but they do have a good reputation. Sure, there are cheaper alternatives, but a lot of the time you get what you pay for. If you want to be a better writer and don't know what to do, try at least looking into these online courses or make a phone call to them with any questions you have. People think writing is something we can do on our own and that if we're "good," we shouldn't really need this kind of help. But I don't think that's true. There's always more to learn. And in these courses you will learn a lot. You or anyone can PM me if you want any more info on the class I took or anything I know about either of these places. Even beginner writing classes like these aren't really for beginners. They are more for people beginning to take writing seriously. It could be a real jumpstart and help you out of the problem you are having.
I like to be told I'm a good writer. I think if someone has read enough of your work, they can say such things. Sometimes even good writers write shitty things so it's not always about the text or at least not every text. Being a good writer is a skill and one many of us have developed over years. I believe I am a good writer and I think that of many people. I see no problem with such a compliment. I am a believer that complimenting someone and their work is just as important as criticizing them or their work. Not saying you would criticize someone, but if you see someone's work and recognize their talents, I see nothing wrong with telling them they are a good writer. A writer is more than one story or one book. If they've got the goods, why not tell them you think so?
I guess it comes down to earning the title of writer. Sure, there's more than one way to get there. You can even hire a ghostwriter if that's how bad you just want the title. But writing is work and progress can feel slow. I probably know more about rejection here than anyone. I'm not bragging about that and I'm more than happy to let someone else take the title of most rejected. I just say this because I don't even think the actual writing is the hardest part of being a writer. Maybe it feels that way, but publishing is a whole different game and it's not kind. I agree that writers write. I'm not so sure writers are smarter than other people, but they do tend to see the world a little different which helps when it comes to creating great stories. Not everyone's cut out for this. I don't think it gets much easier, but we do get better. You just have to put in the work to get there. Or you can hire a ghostwriter or self publish just about anything to say yo have a book and call yourself a writer. But, honestly, the title is not as cracked up as some people think it is.
Without motivation it's never going to happen, and I agree that we, as writers, need to learn to motivate ourselves. If someone really wants this, it shouldn't be so much of a problem.
Motivation is not magic. Writing is like going to the gym. It doesn't matter if you want to, it doesn't matter if it makes you happy, it doesn't matter if you'd rather stay home, you do it because it's something that you are personally invested in doing, period. You have to treat anything that you value in life that way. If you don't value writing, you don't succeed at writing. Allowing yourself to be lazy gets you nowhere. People fail because they refuse to force themselves to succeed. All of this motivation talk is nonsense. It's just people looking for excuses to give up. How far do you think you'll get if you do that?
I really think a lot of prospective "writers" ought to give up. They clearly don't have what it takes to get anywhere. They don't want to hear the truth. The truth isn't emotionally comforting. They'd rather embrace a comforting lie than the uncomfortable reality. Writing isn't easy. It takes years of hard work. Motivation is all internal. Nobody can give it to you. You have to be able to dedicate yourself and not give up, no matter what. And if you can't do these things then you're just wasting your time. People don't want to hear that. They want to hear that anyone can do it if they just want it badly enough. No mention of hard work, of course, who wants to do that, but just wishing hard ought to be enough to make anyone successful. It just doesn't work that way.
Just a question. Are you a successful writer? I only ask because what you're saying is kind of harsh. I probably should have should have given up years ago by your standards, but today I'm doing pretty well with my creative writing. I'm not saying it's not hard work. Everyone who tries to write knows it's not so easy, but I would never want to say or do anything that could silence a voice. Who knows, maybe the OP will write the next great American novel. No art form is as easy or rewarding as we think it should be. That doesn't mean it's not worth trying.
There's nothing harsh about it. It's reality. I know that a lot of people don't like reality, but this is what the real world is like. Far too many people expect the world to hand over unmitigated success on a silver platter because everyone deserves a trophy, but that's not how any of this works. Who knows? Maybe someone will turn out to be the next J.K. Rowling. We don't know. But for the people who can't get motivated or who don't want to put in the work, they're not going to do it. People need to do less complaining and more working. And yes, I am a published writer.
There's no harm in writers who are bad continuing because they love it. But just like those bad singers on American Idol, they need to have realistic expectations of success. 99.9% of writers won't go anywhere. They will never be 'successful'. It's a fact that many find hard to deal with. That doesn't mean don't try, but if that's enough of a deterrent to give up, then you might as well.
