So I've taken a fasciantion with poetry. I'm having such a tough time deriving good imagery and I want to link it to my dyslexia. I like short poems. It's easier for me to read, to focus and not drift. I'm wondering if I'm using my dyslexia as an excuse/resistance instead of showing up for work. Here's my question: without using imagery I'm not writing poetry am I? (I think not) but I guess I do the best I can and hopefully go back and edit/revise when I learn more. Poetry seems barely attainable, but I guess you don't start to climb a mountain at the top either. So there's that.
My first post here (in the poetry section) was to confess that I knew nothing about it, and that I was put off giving it a try because of all the supposed 'rules'. I was afraid that whatever I submitted would be pulled apart by others more knowledgable than me, pointing out that I'd done this and that wrong... or I used a rhyme where I shouldn't... or I'd ended a line on the wrong word, etc etc etc. There are rules, if you choose to go with certain rhyme schemes and forms, but then there's poetry that has no rules as such (free verse), other than to (hopefully) sound lyrical and to stir some emotion in the reader. Look at this - a little poem by William Carlos Williams titled The Red Wheelbarrow so much depends upon a red wheel barrow glazed with rain water beside the white chickens Whatever you do, don't go and read all the ridiculous analysts on this poem. Take it for what it is and let it mean to you whatever it means. Two books I'd recommend; any 'selected' poetry collections of William Carlos Williams (for inspiration and because he wrote a lot of short poetry), and Stephen Fry's The Ode Less Travelled (for learning about the craft). Don't worry, the latter is very accessible.
Yes, I do have that red wheelbarrow book on my list. I love that poem. That is exactly the type of poems I want to write. I'll look the other up. I guess bad poetry is better than no poetry.
Not a book as such. Just one of WCW's many poems. Another of his I love is The Bare Tree. Yes, in terms of you having written it rather than not. You'll write a lot of bad poetry. I've been writing poetry on and off for a while now, and it's still bad. To be honest, so is most of the stuff submitted here by others. That might sound very disrespectful on the surface, but I would hope the poetry writers here take that for how it's meant.
Like any form of writing, poetry needs to be learnt. The trouble with it nowadays is that there is very little engagement with poetry anywhere outside of school and/or university for most people, and therefore it can feel very strange and different - especially when writing it. That wasn't always the case. In fact, we (=humans) have strong reasons to believe that poetry in writing is a lot older than prose... it's just a contemporary hiccup. Of course you can learn to read it and love it, and you can learn to write it. Whether you will become good is another question, but when you're just starting out I doubt that's a primary concern. The most important thing is to read widely; like OurJud suggested, Stephen Fry's guidebook is an accessible and easy starter to learn the craft and a must-have if you wish to do something. As for WCW as a starting poet to read - well, I'm not sure I'd be so quick to suggest him (or at least not exclusively him). Yes, he is brilliant, but a lot of what he does is in response to what came before - the Red Wheelbarrow, for instance, is from a collection called Spring and All, which is, in part, a manifesto of WCW's poetics in which he resists things he considered outdated such as rhyme and metre, and, more importantly, the use of metaphors and similes, which he found silly. Instead it is very descriptive, direct, accessible - it's similar to the Romantic John Clare, who was doing a similar thing. The problem with limiting yourself to one poet is that you won't get to see the rich world that is out there. WCW is popular because he is accessible, but what do you do if you've read a bit more and discover that you don't only like the descriptive but actually prefer projecting emotions onto the natural world? Congratulations, you may be more into Keats than Clare and WCW... so what I'd suggest would be to buy an anthology with multiple poets, and read around. As for learning to write it - just write it. Then read poetry as a writer. Pay attention to the language and see why poem x from poet y works better than your poem. Yes, you need imagery - which form of (fictive) writing doesn't? - but the language use is much more important. Rinse and repeat.
Yes, maybe I should have stressed I suggested this poet as a starting point chiefly because the OP stated they struggled with poems of any significant length (as do I). I also suggested him because I wanted to try and let the OP see what poetry can be in its simplest of forms. To limit yourself to one poet would be ludicrous and do nothing to improve your own voice and style.
I meant this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/081122788X/ref=ox_sc_act_title_8?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
Learn the different forms. Try writing a poem in several of them. Aim to follow the form correctly. Knowing poetry forms helps you better read, understand and appreciate poetry in a different way. Of course, you don't have to stick to writing to form, but just knowing and understanding them I think can help a writer in many ways.
I'm no poet, but I do read some (occasionally.) The stuff I like best is similar to that wheelbarrow poem. A poet sees an ordinary object or event in a way that most observers probably don't. I think if you get the idea first, get it written down, you can then shape words and cadences to better effect. But I think the idea should come first. Give yourself something to work with. Look at an object, for example, and think about it. Don't just describe it. Think about it. What strikes you as signficant about it? Scribble down your thoughts and see what you get. And go from there? What gets me interested in a poem isn't so much the poetic language, but the basic idea. I like that little boot up the backside that a good poem can give a reader. Hey, wow, I never thought of THAT!
Play and enjoy. Skill grows from passion not merely persistence. If drawn to it explore it. If you write awful poetry (by your, or anyone else’s, standards) but still find yourself gravitating toward it keep on keeping on. What can you possibly lose by looking deeper into what interests you.
This is great advice and I only wish I could follow it myself. Unfortunately I'm terrified of failure, even when that failure means nothing. I should be writing poetry but I don't because I need it to be almost finished in my head before I can even begin to develop it. If I try to develop it from scratch, play around with words etc, I'm almost immediately drained of all desire and inspiration. I become very weary, mentally, and end up tossing the pen down with nothing written.
So don't write. Get you a tape recorder, or an audio recording app, and work out loud then you've at least done *something*, which is almost always better than nothing Try to convince yourself to write it down, *then* develop it. Don't screw around with the developing, the improvement or the playing around, until it's 'finished' to you. Then, and only then, should you start doing the things you need to. I can't say as I have this *specific* problem, but I've found ways around a similar problem. Allow me to hand you a mental health post that feels vaguely relevant and helpful. I think it's clever. Spoiler: Spoilers because image. Can't write a poem because it has to be complete? split the task up in your brain, see if that helps
A lot of people don't realize that just as much revision goes into poetry as anything else you write. That is if you really want to do it well. Maybe it seems crazy especially with short poems, but to bring out the real potential in any sort of writing takes time, effort and revision. Sure anyone can put down words and maybe it even sounds pretty good, but I've worked and reworked poems and noticed a real difference. And if you ever have an eye on publishing poetry, revision is definitely going to need to be part of the process. @OurJud -- Have you tried writing poetry to forms? I only ask because you mention sometimes it's hard for you to just get it down on paper without it worked out in your head. When you write any form of poetry there is a right and a wrong way to do it. To be correct it doesn't matter if it's good or not. And learning and practicing different forms of poetry, I believe, can help any writer with writing in general. It's challenging to write correct poetry. Try your hand at something like a sestina. That's not something you can keep in your head before putting words down. Same with a lot of other forms. I learned how to write poetry correctly before really doing anything else with it. Following all these rules for different types of poetry is even going to help if you decide to throw that all out the widow after you learn them. I remember my mentor asking if something was different because my writing had noticeably changed. He was reading my fiction, but I had been studying poetry. And when I say I was studying it, I was learning and practicing the different forms. It's something that changes your relationship with language. I think learning the different forms of poetry and playing around with them is something that will help any writer whether they have an interest in being a poet or not. Also, if we are suggesting poets, my two favorites are Ezra Pound and Elizabeth Bishop.
I remember our discussion about this style of poetry. It was very interesting Recently I just wrote something about how I ‘sign post’ narratives. Taking a look back at this I guess what I was trying to say back then was that this style of poem to me is more like a ‘sign post’ for its own sake. It is appealing, but I find poetry that is written with a set message to be more of a craft - not that there isn’t value or skill in writing the above (it just doesn’t massively tickle my fancy; but I’ve always been fussy as hell about pretty much every artistic niche!) One thing for sure, I’ll NEVER forget “My Father’s Big Toe” (a truly wonderful observation!) - that is precisely what this style of poem focuses in on; a feeling that has no precise worded concept. They all seem to possess the spirit of ‘nostalgia’ in some way though.
@deadrats - I have written poetry that employs traditional forms, in fact it’s all I did write when I started. But I very quickly discovered I preferred the freedom of FV and I suppose neglected rhyme and form. When/if I can ever summon the enthusiasm to write again, I’ll give your idea a try. Thanks.
@animagus_kitty - I love that little text conversation, although it’s the butty as a whole that appeals, more so than the contents. Memo recordings are an idea, but I think I’d encounter the same problem. I’d hit record, then sit watching the timer count up, not knowing what to say.
Some of the Poetry I love best does not follow the rules. Read "Recipe for Pruno" ( https://pen.org/recipe-for-prison-pruno/ ) Start with a bad poem - where the timing and rhyme often doesn't work - and then correct and fix - once you have spent a couple of hours polishing it, I would normally count that as "First Draft" My actual first draft of a poem is more like a "seed" for a poem
Whew, oh I love that poem. I loved how the words came together so well. I got to take a moment and read that again.
I’m afraid I gave up on it before the half way point. It’s about as far removed from the kind of poetry I like as is possible.
