Writing America as the bad guy - any suggestions?

It would be interesting.

For instance, keep in mind, Hitler and the Nazis do not see themselves as the bad guys, in fact they were the good guys, doing right by the world. From their point of view.

The only reason, they're even seen as bad guys now, is because they lost. Had the Nazis won, they'd be seen as a good guys and righteous in their actions. And the Allies would be the bad guys

Granted, that's a bit of an extreme example but it's just something to think about, I think

 

Could you guys imagine Hellboy with the role reversal, the Allies are trying to summon Cthulhu, and the Nazis have to stop them from their evil scheme.

Or idiana Jones being a Nazi archaeologist, fighting the allies. The Allies will be the one to clean melted by the Ark of the Covenant

That is trippy to think about, isn't it!

 

The recent Secret Empire arc in Marvel has Captain America as a secret Nazi (Hydra) agent.

 

I'm not so sure about that. There are six million reasons why the Nazis were bad guys.

 

I'm kind of a wimp to enjoy seeing Captain America as a Nazi, LOL! The thought is intriguing

 

Yes, you and I can agree to that. But our side was the victors.

The Nazis felt completely justified in their actions

In a way sanity was Victorious over insanity

Edit: another way maybe, to look at this is slavery in the South. The southerners completely Justified slavery as a moral and righteous Act.

The only reason, the narrative is different is because the north won, thankfully.

So instead of seeing slavery as a justifiable Act, we sneer at it as the vile institution that it is

 

I agree with the people here who are touching the issue of "the winners always write the history."

Sometimes the losers eventually get to have their say, but not usually right away. This is something to consider when writing your story with the Americans as 'bad guys.' How will they be seen by the opposing side? How will they be seen by their own side? How do they justify their views and actions ...which they will probably not see as 'bad' at all.

Of course, individuals on boths sides can differ from the opinion of the majority of their country's citizens as well.

In other words, when writing about something like this, perspective is the key. What perspective do your characters/narrators have? If it's possible to show the perspective of the other side as well, that will make the story pretty riveting.

Almost nothing in the world is pure/impure. There are always shades of grey. Followers of extreme politics or fanatical religion often see themselves as 'cleansing' their society from impurities. So they see themselves as doing good. They see any harm they do as collateral damage.

 

Agreed, and another thing to keep in mind. Even in Nazi Germany, not every German was a Nazi. Some of them even helped the Jews, either by hiding them or helping them escape the country.

I believe Schindler's List is a good example of this.

Even some people in Hitler's own ranks tried to kill him, to stop the madness

 

History is always viewed through the lens of the present. Histories are constantly rewritten using current knowledge and the original primary sources from an era. It is often the victors who do get the first stab at writing secondary histories, and also have the ability to destroy primary sources. Though this is often over-emphasized, I think.

For example, we see from Caesar's conquest of Gaul that Caesar himself wrote the best primary source we have available. I don't think the Gaulic tribes were producing records that would survive until today, though, so it is hard to say that Caesar's account was preserved only because he won the conflict. Are the sources that chronicle the fall of the Roman empire from a Roman or a "barbarian" perspective? My guess would be Roman, as they had a talent for keeping records that survive until today.

If we look at Columbus for example, we see that public schools generally saw him as a good guy 50 years ago, but as a bad guy today. The same can be said for other European conquerors of the day. Perceptions change over time.

In the midst of any conflict, there is usually plenty of wartime propoganda that portrays the entire populace of the opposing country as the enemy. Indeed, this is usually how people think. Us versus them. I think of Fahim Anwar, a comic who was booed off a stage in Seattle of all places for saying he's from Afghanistan. This happened in 2001-2002 of course.

Do any of your characters have a pre-existing distrust of the US or it's government? China and the US are certainly two of the world's greatest superpowers and are often at odds for that reason. China and the US were basically in a state of very firmly undeclared war during the Korean conflict, as US forces drew too close to the Korea-China border, and a counter-attack was launched from across it (if I recall the details correctly). Our conflict in the region persists via proxies. North Korea, Vietnam, etc.

 

I don't know if Christopher Columbus was really a bad guy, he was just a dude who wanted to find a quicker way to the East Indies.

The real bad guys, is the Pope and monarchs who laid claim to the new lands and began cutting it up. Never minding, and even dehumanizing the people already on the land.

I love America, and I'm glad it's here. I just wish things went a little bit differently in its founding. But nothing could be done to change history, we just have to improve things.

 

Imperialism was a colorful thing.

 

Indeed it was. Where would Humanity be without it.

Not sure if you'd like my alternate Earth, where the planet is ruled by Massive Empires

 

I have something of the same in a science fiction story I posted on here a while back. It wasn't the focal point, but it was a factor in the economic space mining race for rare earth minerals.

The more you study imperialism, the more you realize that almost every nation was shaped from something of its like, and the more you see how humanity really functions at its base and core.

 

I have a planet, where there's about two or three big Empires. Two of them were founded on the premise of quelling the more violent Nations.

The other two were about your Conquests

Edit: I need to correct myself, one of the two that were pure Conquest, was actually out of fear for the return of an ancient enemy.

And in the present time of this world, two empires are considered good guys, one is considered antagonist, and one is semi neutral, but will occasionally assist the good guys

 

You could easily twist history to make it so with the KKK's membership in the Democrats, America's anti-Semitism during WW2 and their leadership's response to the Holocaust and Jewish refugees, Operation Paperclip and the fact that many Nazi's took refuge south of the border and make a link between Nazi's in Sth America's experiments on human subjects with America's experiments on human subjects especially focusing on their unethical experiments in psychology and research with psychic powers. Also, there have always been rumours that Hitler survived the War and escaped to Sth America. You should be able to draw a line between them and tell a story of how they eventually installed their own 'people/experiments' into the white house and took over America with all that information.

 

I think the OP's best bet would be to create an alternate earth. Were they go back far enough, make the evil America they want!

Such as, having George Washington become king or the South won the Civil War. So that slavery and anti-semitism would still be prevalent.

That sort of America might have been more open to helping Hitler instead of the allies.

Or maybe after World War II, the victory led to an Ultra aggressive patriotism, were they justify invading other countries, claiming they're too weak to rule themselves

Edit: also, why are the aliens favoring one Earth Nation over another? They would probably just see all humans as barbaric in violent.

Leading to them, either isolating Earth or invading it. And let's not forget the self-interest of the aliens, give me the care about themselves over some primitive Society

 

You don't really need to create an alternate Earth if you consider Illuminati's/Free Masons plan for a New World Order and their symbol being prevalent on the US bill that could be interpreted as their control over America as well as their late involvement in the War. The Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbour in Hawaii has never made any military strategic sense to anyone so, this could be suggested as a plan for them to get America involved when they come to realise Communism's 'actual' power in Europe and predicted Russia's defeat of Nazi Germany. Secretly helping Hitler could possibly be interpreted as expediting the plan for a New World Order as well as 'quelling' the growing Communist 'threat'.

 

But he wants a hundred percent of Americans to be evil, as in they're all in it together. Not just some shady secret government. I'm trying to point out ways he could do that

 

Well typically throughout human history, the masses don't know their on the bad side until they lose and they're told so. Repeatedly. Even then, it's up in the air because they first have to start believing. Take for instance the state of the World today, the masses in Russia, China and Arab are lead to believe America to be evil and Americans are to lead to believe them all to be evil. 'Evil' depends on who's side you're on.

 

Since when did I say that?

 

Right, but he wants Americans to be evil as an evil, for the sake of being

Not any sense of logical, self-interest or propaganda, where Americans wake up oh crap.

America's is basically the Helghast to him

 

I don't care if you hate America, and want them as your evil antagonist.

I'm just trying to show how you can pull it off.

Personally, as I said I don't use real Nations but fictional ones.

 

Alright. Fine.

When I say 'America, as a whole', I meant 'This was known, and condoned, by the american government, up to the highest levels, and has widespread support amongst the public if it were to be known'.

 

That's not what it means though. And you want all Americans to be part of this evil cabal against the world. That's what America as a whole mean.

Edit: you also didn't address the fact I said you hated America, which I find fascinating.

 

Also, why are these aliens favoring One Nation over another! Shouldn't they be favoring their own self-interest, if anything they would only help a nation like Russia or even America, as a Prelude to invasion

Edit: also, I would think the aliens would see the human race as a whole, barbaric and violent. They would do everything in their power to keep their advanced technology out of the hands of Primitives.

Not to mention, they would see both Russia and America as a same creature, and China