Prophecies in fantasy

That's a good point. Or like with Harry Potter, keep the MC in the dark till later on, then reveal the prophesy in a way that it could also apply to another major character close to the MC.

 

yeah... the whole basis of my WIP is about fate and prophecies. But it is the, what I call, "Oedipus" kind of prophecy vs the "you are the chosen one" kind of prophecy. Like, the prophecy says king will be killed by his son.... then, in order to change his fate, he gets rid of his son, but then events happen, and the prophecy is carried out anyways. For some reason, I really like the idea of challenging fate, or trying to control your fate, versus simply just going with it. No "reluctant hero" or "hero quest to become the chosen one," but building your whole life on trying to control the uncontrollable and how lives become intertwined.... like Oedipus.
Really, also like the Pharaoh feeding all Hebrew babies to crocodiles in order to prevent the demise of Egypt, but in a stroke of irony (and fate), his daughter finds Moses and they raise him as their own.... and Egypt is destroyed by the plagues.

 

Honestly, I just flat out don't like prophecies. Maybe I hate fate. At least, when it's defined that clearly. It's never really ruined a book for me though. I just try to ignore them when they pop up, haha.

 

Me neither. I went out of my way to avoid putting that in my novel. I think it's a lot easier to explain motive when it's driven by prophecy and why this particular person could save the world. But I found that characters were a lot more fun when you have to create a compelling narrative to get them to do something right.

 

Apocalypse, antichrist, and etc. Very real to about 90% of the people where I live. There was a homeless man screaming about it last month near some shops. Although people generally consider a homeless man as crazy and unreliable. However, I've heard plenty of church going folk speak of prophecies. There is also a viable palm reading business here because there are several shops in the area that at least make enough to pay rent. My great grandmother used to take my mom to her regular fortune teller. Then there is astrology of course. Tarot cards, and etc. Plenty of prophecies going around.

 

Yes. Yes they do. I even know of one in charge of one of the major Christian churches. I can talk to you about it if you want to PM me, but trying to talk about it on this thread would just derail the conversation.

 

Prophecies are used in fantasy for a reason. Readers enjoy a good prophecy. They like to believe that the underdog can rise up. Fate is on the side of the little guy. Prophecies represent that. Anything becomes possible when fate is on your side.

 

That's a good way to grab a reader's attention, isn't it? They keep reading because they want to see the prophecy fulfilled (or thwarted, depending on which side of the prophecy the 'good guys' are on.)

Prophecies in stories sometimes have a twist in them. The prophecy comes true, but not quite as people expect. By 'people' I mean both readers and characters.

I like the ones that are phrased to make people assume the wrong things. Like that subplot in Lord of the Rings, when the Nazgul king assumes he's immortal because, "No man can kill me." That mistake was kind of bleeding obvious, but it's a common storytelling device, going back to legend and mythology. These storytelling devices stand the test of time, because they work.

 

Like anything else in a story, when prophecy is too 'on the nose' it falls flat. Dialogue without subtext rings hollow, and so does prophesy that means exactly what it says.

This is one of my favorite subjects, so I struggle to keep it brief, but I will try.

One of Carl Jung's great discoveries was that the great religions, as well as fairy tales and folk tales, were actually explorations of the uncionscious in a pre-scientific age when nobody understood what it was. They had no language to express it except to refer to it as a magical place––it's been called Shambalha, Nirvana, the Land of the Dead, Heaven and Hell, Asgaard, Mount Olympus and etcetera––the home of the Gods interpreted through many different languages cultures and belief systems. But in actual fact, what the prophets, shamans, witch doctors, messiahs etc were really getting intimations of was what we today call the unconscious.

The gods, angels, devils, demons etc are archetypes or complexes of various kinds. Much of Jung's work and that of his followers was to unravel this in greater detail. His Individuation process was built from painstaking research into initiation techniques for the aforementioned shamans, priests, prophets, witch doctors etc, which all show some startling similarities though developed in widely separated parts of the world.

Sorry, getting too long-winded. To move forward––it's the unfortunate tendency of modern people to take everything completely literally. From what I understand, and this makes perfect sense to me, religious books, fairy tales and folk tales weren't to be taken literally but interpreted, very much like dreams can be. In those days apparently everyone understood that. And often the figures in the stories were intended to represent parts of the psyche––the main ones being what Jung called the Self, the Shadow, and the Anima or Animus.

It's my belief that prophesies also represent inner goings-on, not literal events or actual people. A king would be a representative probably of the Self, or an evil king might be a shadow figure or some complex that tends to take over and dominate your behavior.

For this reason I agree with the people saying that prophecies should not be taken completely at face value. Now I realize most people know nothing about Jung's work, and if you'd labor to create a prophecy that meets all these requirements it would go over the heads of 98% of the readers. But I do think at least they should be more metaphorical.

Metaphor was vitally important in the creation of all those early writings (holy books, fairy tales etc). If you look at any of them literally they're pretty foolish and meaningless, but through the eyes of metaphor they become profound.

 

I like prophecies that create fodder for theorizing. So if it is too clear-cut that's boring. But prophecies that could relate to multiple events or characters, make you constantly wonder if you have interpreted it correctly.

For example I really like how prophecy is handled it A Song of Ice and Fire series by George R. R. Martin. They are usually explained in dreamlike symbolic terms that make you question what the true meaning is. Since it is implied that all of the prophecies will come true, your left wondering if they've already been fulfilled in some way or if some future event will fit them even better.

Another trope in fiction that I like that is tangentially related to prophecies is reincarnation/incarnation stories. The idea that we've got some ancient hero who has been reincarnated into the modern conflict. Just makes me speculate as to who it could be (though naturally this works best if their are multiple likely candidates).

 

A prophecy is a good way to include some wicked prose into an otherwise sober story, and if written well, it can really instill a cosmic fear into the reader.

 

I asked the exact same questions a while ago and in general most people were ok with them as they as they went deeper. Like looking at the theme of fate vs free will. Or belief - so does the prophecy become real because you believed it was meant to and so took risks believing you would be successful?
Can you trust the person who gave the prophecy or do they have an agenda and are just good at manipulating people.

I don't like the typical prophecy that has no depth to it or the hidden prophecy that doesn't seem like one at the time. Or the trope of "this Seer showed us the future, but conveniently didn't reveal everything, specifically what we needed to know." In my opinion people can see the future or they can't, why would bits be hidden? If you have a good answer to why then maybe. I love questioning fate and freewill but it can get cliche and typical.

 

I myself dislike grand prophecies, prophesied many eons ago, that one day he shall return and lay waste to the house of H'ra.
I like visions of the near future, but that wasn't your question lol
Grand prophecies always feel a little lacking in the free will department to me.

But there very common, so I guess people do like them xD

 

I feel like (at least in the media I've consumed in my adult life) prophecies are only interesting/well received when they are somehow subverted. I.e. the so-called chosen one turns out to not really be the chosen one and the prophecy meant someone else, or when it turns out the prophecy was all fake, etc.

I had one story where the "prophecies" were predictions handed down by the gods to aid/manipulate their mortal worshipers. Now, the gods were far more wise, had unlimited vision of the whole world and could track far more variables than mere mortals, but even their predictions weren't set in stone (particularly after they handed down such prophecies), so those who received these prophecies had some agency to change the predicted outcomes.

 

I think prophesies can be useful, but you kinda need to really think about how they work and why you would want them in your story. For that matter, what practical purpose do they serve for the people within the story?

I mean, if it's the kind of prophesy that will absolutely come true because that's literally destiny, well, that makes them kinda pointless since the Chosen One will rise up to defeat the Dark Lord anyway, whether there's a prophesy about it or not. And if they're so vague that they can be very easily misinterpreted then they're not especially useful, are they?

Often I get the impression that prophesies keep showing up in fantasy mostly because they are a sort of artifact motif from folklore and mythology, not because they serve any actual narrative purpose. And on the occasions where a fantasy story didn't involve a prophesy, I can't recall every missing it. If the story works fine without a prophesy, why include it?

Anyway, lately I've been playing with the idea of having prophesies work more like plans. Not exactly predictions of things that will definitely happen, more like: "If you do these things under those circumstances, you will likely get this result." At least then the characters have reason to act on the information, either to fulfill the prophesy or prevent it. You may even have different prophesies with contradicting outcomes, with different faction struggling to make the one they favor come true.

 

My Guild of Soothsayers are just in it to make money off the gullible. They're all about the prophets.

 

Sir Terry Pratchett would be proud of that pun.

 

Not everyone knowing about it or just knowing parts of it is an interesting idea. In the story I’m currently rewriting I have a prophecy that only the gods and the oracle giving it know about. But it has no world changing relevance, only a personal one for the character Suzaku. And him trying to keep it from happening makes him do some stupid things.

 

This reminds me, yesterday I had something interesting pointed out to me that I hadn't really thought about before: The definition of prophesy, strictly speaking, is actually something like "a message that a prophet receives from a diety; a revelation of divine will."

That is, it doesn't actually have to be a prediction of the future, though it sometimes is. It can also be a god simply instructing people what they should be doing, or a kind of heads up for what said god is planning, using the prophet as a medium to relay the message.